When is it too much?

• 01-07-2009 3:23 PM

  jstrawbri Joined on 10-21-2007 Elizabethtown, PA Posts 57 Points 270

  When is it too much? Reply Contact I've got a 9 month old (Jeter) GSP and an almost 3 year old one (Snickers).  Snickers is basically submissive but likes to play... I just never know when or if I should break it up between the two of them.  I can tell Snickers is not biting hard; he appears to be mostly just mouthing and a lot of play growling.  But with Jeter I can't tell if he's biting too hard and Snickers is just putting up with it... I can see Jeter literally pulling on Snickers cheek and loose skin on his back.  I always find little scabs from Jeter nipping him...nothing big or deep by any means.  I just worry that if he behaves that way at the dog park others may find this unacceptable.  We haven't been there since the Summer so I don't know how he'd behave there.  Also, whenever they are seperated for a few minutes...one was outside or crated or whatever...Jeter will always seem to want to bully Snickers.  He will either body slam him or mouth on his neck.  Why does he do that and should I correct him?  Sometimes Snickers seems to not want to walk past Jeter for fear of getting ambushed. I'm thinking that maybe Jeter thinks he the pack leader of this household.  I will admit I've been lazy about the obedience training with him.  He knows sit and down but won't stay and I don't think he really knows the come command that well.  He'll come if I call his name most of the time but I've not had him off lead outside the fenced in yard for months and I'm not so sure he'd come when called then.  He does heel pretty well on our daily walks.  Could the lack of training be an issue with the above situation?  I know I have to get on the training asap before he gets any older; I just hate making Snickers stay away when I try to work with Jeter. So, any comments will be appreciated.  Thanks all! Jessica S.

  Post Points: 0

• 01-07-2009 3:33 PM

  In reply to jstrawbri

  misstrouble Joined on 09-27-2008 Fayetteville, NC Posts 2,446 Points 275

  Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact Might just be play.,...most dogs pain threshfold is fairly high. The scabes would worry me, I'd only let them play like that for short periods if I were you....but I dont know if that would help or not.? I've seen Sam(55lb Lab mix) headbutt and ROLL my Mom's 20 lb shih tzu/pom(Taz), and Taz just gets up, and shakes off, then starts to play all over again. Hopefully someone with more experience will come along soon. Meg

  Post Points: 0

• 01-07-2009 3:38 PM

  In reply to jstrawbri

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,729 Points 1,020

  Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact jstrawbri: Sometimes Snickers seems to not want to walk past Jeter for fear of getting ambushed. The way you decide when to intervene is to remove the dog that you perceive as the bully (in this case, Jeter).  If, while you are holding Jeter back, Snickers does not go back to engage him in play, then the game is over.  If he does, and there is good give and take, then it can continue for a while.  Training each dog is essential, and don't worry about doing it separately.  So what if Snickers has to be put away?  You will be putting Jeter away to train Snickers, too.  Dogs do seem to get along better when both are respectful of the human's authority in the house.  Don't confuse bullying with leadership.  Leaders are NOT bullies.  Jeter may just have a play style that gets obnoxious for Snickers.  Or, he may really be a bully, but if he tries that at the dog park, there will likely be a dog or two that will tell him, nicely or not, to cut it out. Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

  Post Points: 0

• 01-07-2009 3:41 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  sl2crmeg Joined on 10-08-2006 New Smyrna Beach, FL Posts 4,100 Points 405	Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact I agree with Spiritdogs -- I work at a doggie day care and if the one-being-bullied doesn't reciprocate when the bully is removed, then the bully is being too rough and needs a break.
  	Post Points: 0

• 01-08-2009 12:55 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  jstrawbri Joined on 10-21-2007 Elizabethtown, PA Posts 57 Points 270

  Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact Thanks for the good info.  I guess I'd have to say that maybe Jeter isn't really being a bully but has a rough style of play.  I do seperate them when I think Jeter is being too much and Snickers most of the time comes back for more.  It's just when Snickers isn't in the mood to rough-house and he knows Jeter is that he kind of ducks out of the way or heads under the table.  Like Spiritdogs said...Jeter is being obnoxious and Snickers doesn't want to deal with it. Jessica S.

  Post Points: 0

• 01-08-2009 1:51 PM

  In reply to jstrawbri

  VanMorrison Joined on 07-02-2007 Probably North of you... Posts 1,987 Points 820

  Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact My GSP plays rough also and the older lab enjoys it to a point and then I call the GSP off.  I've actually taught him "That's Enough" which means to stop the rolly-poly play. Morrison, the GSP, does get quite a few little nicks and some small scrapes with all his rough play and tumbling around.  The dogs go to day care once a week to tire them out and there are lots of GSP, Viszlas, Labs, Britannys and other hunting dogs there.  The owner has assured me that his rough play is normal for a GSP due to their "all out" attitude combined with their fur.  Because they are shorthairs we see the little nicks much more than on a more fully furred dog.

  Post Points: 0

• 01-08-2009 2:33 PM

  In reply to VanMorrison

  JackieG Joined on 04-15-2008 Central Texas Posts 5,955 Points 710	Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact VanMorrison: I've actually taught him "That's Enough" which means to stop the rolly-poly play.   This is what I taught Belle because she plays rough and Rex rarely corrects her.
  	Post Points: 0

• 01-08-2009 3:04 PM

  In reply to VanMorrison

  jstrawbri Joined on 10-21-2007 Elizabethtown, PA Posts 57 Points 270	Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact VanMorrison: I've actually taught him "That's Enough" which means to stop the rolly-poly play.   Hmmm...I'll have to try that; using a command for Jeter to learn.  Thanks! Jessica S.
  	Post Points: 0

• 01-09-2009 7:44 AM

  In reply to jstrawbri

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,729 Points 1,020

  Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact jstrawbri: VanMorrison: I've actually taught him "That's Enough" which means to stop the rolly-poly play.   Hmmm...I'll have to try that; using a command for Jeter to learn.  Thanks!   That's an excellent idea, but remember to teach it first while he is NOT in the play situation with the other dog.  I find that it's easier to teach the dog that "That's Enough" (or whatever phrase you choose to use) means "stop what you are doing and look at me".  If you can condition the dog to look at you, it's easier to then call him over to you to break up the interaction.  Otherwise, you might just get a dog that interrupts play, but goes right back to what he was doing (being obsessive and obnoxious LOL) Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

  Post Points: 0

• 01-09-2009 10:16 AM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  jstrawbri Joined on 10-21-2007 Elizabethtown, PA Posts 57 Points 270

  Re: When is it too much? Reply Contact Totally makes sense! ...and I probably would have done it exactly wrong and tried to teach it while he was right in the middle of playing!!  Thanks for the tip.  So in your opinion is this just another variation of "leave it"?  He's getting that down pretty well.  Snickers is a Saint when it comes to "leave it"... if only Jeter would learn to be more like his big brother. Any suggestions on how I should really go about trying to train him the "enough" scenario?   Jessica S.

  Post Points: 0