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older poodle had her first seizure last night

Last post 11-06-2008 10:43 PM by sl2crmeg. 4 replies.
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  • 11-06-2008 4:27 PM

    older poodle had her first seizure last night

    lilee, my almost 13 y.o.  tiny toy poodle (3.5 lbs), had a seizure last night.  she came out of it very quickly.  i took her to the vet today and he did some blood work.  it just came back and there were nucleated red blood cells.  he asked if we had lead paint and i told him no.  he wants to do a re-check and an ultrasound of her abdomen.  does this sound right?  what else would he be looking for?

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  • 11-06-2008 4:53 PM In reply to poodlemom

    • JackieG
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    Re: older poodle had her first seizure last night

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  • 11-06-2008 8:20 PM In reply to JackieG

    Re: older poodle had her first seizure last night

    It can be really difficult to pin down "cause" of seizures.  He's looking for toxins -- but what vets often *don't* tell you is how to deal with a seizure, how to look for one about to begin, and how to help the dog thru it to minimize the risk of further seizing.

    Please please PLEASE don't just let them put this older dog on phenobarbitol or potassium bromide.  The side effects from these drugs can be devastating.  There are OTHER things that can be done.

    Acupucture and herbals can be incredibly effective in helping the body avoid further seizing. 

    When we adopted Kee Shu she   was in a seizury state pretty much about 98% of the time.  Constant obsessive "petit mal" type of seizures and repetitive, obsessive behaviors that really were, at their origin, seizure-related.  She's been with us almost 3 years and frankly I have a completely different dog.  She almost never ever does the repetitive behaviors and altho at one time at the beginning it looked like it might escalate into repeated full blown seizures, it did not and we were able to completely control it with the herbals and acupuncture.

    There are environmental things that *can* contribute -- most anything that can cause a seizure in humans will in dogs -- blinking lights, repetitive sounds but also environmental toxins like pine (do you ever use pine sol to clean with?), paint chips, cleaning chemicals, etc.

    You might want to consider consulting a TCVM vet (traditional Chinese veterinary medicine) -- that's not a Chinese vet, but rather a vet that practices acupuncture and Eastern methods. 

     http://www.tcvm.com is the Chi Institute -- and there is a locator on the left side of the page.  I've had incredibly good luck referring folks to vets thru that -- in fact, you might want to search -- for Sharismom's posts about Bear:

     http://community.dog.com/forums/t/86756.aspx?PageIndex=1  and

    http://community.dog.com/forums/t/86946.aspx?PageIndex=1 (her visit with Bear to a TCVM vet).

    Feel free to email me if I can help.


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  • 11-06-2008 8:56 PM In reply to poodlemom

    Re: older poodle had her first seizure last night

    Heres some advice about seizures from canine-epilepsy.com

    Hypoglycemia brought on by giving excessive doses of insulin to diabetic dogs, or by insulin-secreting tumors of the pancreas in older dogs, may also precipitate seizures.

    Another important differential for seizures in dogs is ingestion of something toxic - insecticides and rat poisons, for instance. Dogs are exposed to toxic levels of lead from a variety of sources. These include old, peeling oil-based paint, batteries, linoleum, tarpaper, roofing materials, drapery weights, fishing sinkers, champagne bottle foil and golf ball coverings, just to name a few. The amount of lead needed to instigate a seizure in a given dog depends on the dog's own seizure threshold.

    Trauma to the head can lead to seizures due to hemorrhage or swelling of the brain or surrounding tissues, often with subsequent formation of scar tissue or blood clots. It is not uncommon to see seizures result from a traumatic episode that occurred years earlier. Bleeding and swelling can also be caused by tumors of the CNS or surrounding structures. Tumors are most common in older dogs.

    Although there are many known causes of seizures in dogs, the most common cause remains unknown; these dogs are diagnosed as having "idiopathic epilepsy." Although the term idiopathic means self-originated, it's really just a technical way of saying the cause of the disease is unknown. Even though a large percentage of seizures end up being diagnosed as idiopathic, testing for other possible causes should always be performed, especially if the seizures are severe, frequent or occur in clusters. If an underlying cause is found, therapy can be directed specifically at correcting the abnormality.

    Idiopathic epilepsy is believed to be an inherited disorder, at least in some breeds. Breeding studies have shown a genetic basis for the disorder in German Shepherds, Belgian Tervuren, Keeshonden, Beagles and Dachshunds. Although inheritance patterns have not been documented, the disease also appears to be quite common in Poodles (all varieties), Saint Bernards, Irish Setters, Siberian Huskies, Cocker Spaniels, Wire-haired Fox Terriers, and Labrador and Golden Retrievers.

    And as to answer your question here:

    The initial workup of a patient with seizures includes a thorough physical examination, a meticulous medical history, screening blood work and a urinalysis. A complete blood count can reveal signs of infection or inflammation. A chemistry profile helps to investigate metabolic causes of seizures by testing for biochemical markers of liver, kidney, glucose, and electrolyte disturbances. Changes in the urine can also reflect kidney, liver or other metabolic abnormalities. In addition, if there is any possibility of exposure, a blood sample may reveal toxic levels of lead.

    If an obvious cause isn't discovered with the initial testing, further tests can prove useful. An important element in the clinical evaluation of just about any patient with a central nervous system disorder is the analysis of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF). Changes in CSF protein concentration, blood cell population and pressure indicate specific diseases of the CNS.

    CSF is collected while dogs are under general anesthesia. They are positioned on their side and an area at the base of the skull and upper neck is clipped and surgically scrubbed. Once the head is positioned just so, a needle is carefully placed into the space between the base of the skull and the first cervical vertebra. The fluid is then collected through the needle and submitted to a laboratory for analysis. To measure CSF pressure, a manometer can be attached to the needle; pressure is often elevated in the case of brain tumors, for example.

    While the patient is anesthetized, an electroencephalogram (EEG) also can be performed. Although EEG equipment is usually found only at teaching hospitals or large referral centers, the test can yield useful information.

    To perform an EEG, small wire electrodes are placed in the skin at various points overlying the brain, and electrical activity of the brain is observed. The pins penetrate the skin, but they are very small and non-traumatic. In fact, EEGs can usually be performed in awake dogs. This test is simple and risk-free to perform (it's similar to an EKG of the heart), but interpretation usually requires the services of a specialist in neurology.

    The last diagnostic option available to investigate seizures is a brain scan. Computerized tomography (CT scan) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) are just becoming available in veterinary medicine. These diagnostic imaging techniques yield a wealth of information and can be very sensitive indicators of structural CNS diseases. However, as with all other tests, these scans are negative in cases of idiopathic epilepsy. Brain scans also require the use of general anesthesia.

    And heres what to do if she has another seizure:

    Watching a dog have a seizure is terrifying - especially if it's a dog you love. If the dog is a young puppy or a lactating bitch, it should be seen by a veterinarian immediately. A single isolated seizure in an otherwise healthy adult dog, however, does not usually require emergency veterinary care, though an appointment should be scheduled promptly for a thorough work-up. If there are multiple seizures in a day, emergency care should be sought without delay.

    When a dog has a seizure, as difficult as it may be, it is important for owners to remain calm. The dog should be moved to a safe place or laid on a rug to minimize the chances of injury. If possible, time the length of the seizure and observe carefully so that you can give a veterinarian a clear and accurate account of the event. Dogs do not swallow their tongues during seizures and owners should never put their hands near a seizuring dog's mouth. Many veterinarians believe that the length and severity of the post-ictal phase can be decreased by gently trying to calm and soothe the dog. Panicking won't help.

    It's important to remember that seizures themselves are almost never fatal. When seizures occur in clusters, however, dogs are prone to developing status epilepticus, a condition characterized by continuous, uncontrollable seizure activity. Continuous seizures can lead to exhaustion, hypoglycemia, hyperthermia, oxygen depletion, brain damage, and eventually, death. Status epilepticus is an extreme emergency and often requires general anesthesia for prolonged periods of time to control.

    Good luck with Lilee. I hope this helps. If you want or need more information go to the link at the top of my answer. This is where all this info came from.

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  • 11-06-2008 10:43 PM In reply to poodlemom

    • sl2crmeg
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    Re: older poodle had her first seizure last night

    I agree with Callie - my boy is epileptic and I wish we'd never started the meds.

    I'm not sure what else your vet might be looking for, but hopefully he can help. Something that seems to be a trigger for Pirate is anything heavily scented, like Lysol spray, and a BIG one, (something that I can connect to all 3 places he's seized) is the Swiffer Wet-Jet. Triggers are different for every dog, though.

    I hope your tiny one is feeling much better, soon.

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