Training a dog to NOT do something . . .

• 05-15-2008 10:14 AM

  Shohin Joined on 08-26-2006 Posts 431 Points 0

  Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact I'm going to guess that most will tell me to train them to do what I want . . . well it's a bit tricky in this situation.  Let's start with the issue . . . we have two dogs, Gracie (new dog) and Winston. Both are very active, get along great and really have a good time together . . . and the both love to chew on sticks. Another hobby of mine is growing bonsai tree's, and if any of you have ever been serious or know anyone seriously into the hobby, you know that bonsai can be worth hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. I keep my tree's on a picnic table in the yard . . . they are tree's after all. Up until gracie came along, winston never even looked twice at my tree's, he was content with sticks in the yard. Well, now that gracie has come alone she has figured out that there are "sticks" on top of the picnic table. How do I teach both winston and gracie to a) leave the tree's/plants in pots alone, and b) keep off the picnic and patio tables. Difficulty: I can't scold gracie. She came from an abusive environment and is now very comfortable with me and likes me, but if I raise my voice she cowers in fear and runs away. (I obviously try VERY hard to not raise my voice, but when she's got essentially a thousand dollars in her mouth its kind of hard not to). Idea: since this happens mostly when I am not around, its hard to catch them in the act. I had an idea of "setting them up" by putting some food on the table and waiting for them to go for it and the stop them with an "ah ah ahh" (which DOES work well without resulting in cowering) and a "leave it" which would get rewarded with the food/treat/whatever. Thanks for the help!

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• 05-15-2008 10:55 AM

  In reply to Shohin

  corgipower Joined on 09-10-2007 new jersey Posts 780 Points 0

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact Shohin: Idea: since this happens mostly when I am not around, its hard to catch them in the act. I had an idea of "setting them up" by putting some food on the table and waiting for them to go for it and the stop them with an "ah ah ahh" (which DOES work well without resulting in cowering) and a "leave it" which would get rewarded with the food/treat/whatever. You could...but the dog might simply learn to leave it when you're there, which doesn't help...The dog also might just learn to leave the food and not to leave the trees...I would set it up so they don't have access to the trees or booby trap the table. Proud member of the tenth place CISRA 2008 team!! tweleve.org corgipower.com My Dog Votes!

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• 05-15-2008 11:35 AM

  In reply to Shohin

  FourIsCompany Joined on 07-30-2007 Posts 4,738 Points 1,135

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact If something was valuable to me and the dogs liked to chew on it, I would temporarily make it impossible for them to get to it, so the habit would be broken. By the way, dogs shouldn't be allowed to chew on sticks. I have read stories of splinters hurting their teeth, lodging in their throat and puncturing their stomach. So you might want to take all the sticks away and provide the dogs with GOOD things to chew on, like raw bones and good chew toys. Once it is established that they aren't chewing on sticks anymore because there are so many better things to chew on, then you can bring your trees back, making SURE that the dogs know the trees are yours and they are not even to approach them. Yelling isn't necessary In fact, you can let them know they are not to approach the trees just by using your energy and body and blocking their access. The first thing to do to break counter-surfing (which is what this is) is to remove any reward they might get by doing so. Once they realize there are no more goodies up there, they will stop jumping up there. Secondly, dogs look for stuff to do (and chewing is a favorite) when they're bored. I don't know what kind of exercise these guys are getting, but if it's not enough, that may be one reason they're chewing on sticks in the yard in the first place. I'm betting that well-exercised dogs with good stuff to chew on won't bother your trees. Good luck!   LSTM (Laughing Silently to Myself) Click Daily to Give Free Food and Care to Animals: http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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• 05-15-2008 1:06 PM

  In reply to FourIsCompany

  JRTzoey Joined on 08-04-2007 Halifax, NS Posts 184 Points 95

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact i agree %100 with 4IC. sticks can definately be dangerous to their health, and while a supervised chew on a stick could be fine, i'd take them ALL away (including the bonsais, which they see as sticks), and replace it with a yummy bone, maybe stuffed with peanut butter or something really yummy to keep them busy... i have an orange ball that holds treats, and when it's rolled around some come out. something like that would help stimulate them mentally too. until things are settled, remove any possibility for them to get their paws on sticks, even if this means going out with them to interrupt/block stick munching when they're outside, and encouraging them to chew on the acceptable replacements.  good luck! you should post some pics of your trees so we can all see!! :)  My dog makes me a better person.

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• 05-15-2008 1:55 PM

  In reply to JRTzoey

  Shohin Joined on 08-26-2006 Posts 431 Points 0

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact Moving the bonsai to an area where they are inaccessible to the dogs AND somewhere they won't get stolen is not really feasible. There are too many trees and some of which are too big. As for exercise, these two definitely get plenty of it . . . there is no shortage of activity with a vizsla and german wirehaired pointer who are both under 2 years of age. I could remove all the sticks in the yard (it would be difficult, but could be done i suppose) but I would be hesitant to place any bones in the yard. I would be afraid they would fight over them . . . I've never seen any evidence of resource guarding by either dog, but they've never had a chance to have something as potentially "valuable" as a raw bone. Besides, Winston will shred just about anything we give him . . . I'm yet to find something for him to chew on that lasts more than 10 minutes. I agree though that I need to remove the reward of going up on the tables . . . . I'm going to have to come up with something crafty here.

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• 05-15-2008 2:05 PM

  In reply to Shohin

  FourIsCompany Joined on 07-30-2007 Posts 4,738 Points 1,135

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact How about making it impossible for the dogs to get to the trees? A fence? A 10x10 Kennel from the hardware store around the table? (without the roof, of course).   I know you said they get plenty of exercise, and I don't want to harp on the point, but I mean exercise outside of the yard. Long walks, hikes, runs, etc.   LSTM (Laughing Silently to Myself) Click Daily to Give Free Food and Care to Animals: http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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• 05-15-2008 2:09 PM

  In reply to Shohin

  mudpuppy Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 5,494 Points 100

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact most people give their dogs chewies in crates or something similar to keep the dogs from fighting, they don't just distribute bones all over the yard. The stick-chewing thing is really dangerous, you need to stop that and provide suitable ways to chew. Why don't you just put a little temporary fence or run a hot wire around your valuable trees? Scatmats on the benches so they don't hop up?

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• 05-15-2008 4:16 PM

  In reply to mudpuppy

  chinook Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 81 Points 0

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact I gotta say, if your dogs are shredding sticks and spitting out the splinters, as my dog does, I don't see the harm.  I don't see how a raw bone is any safer than a saliva-drenched splinter of branch that will get broken down in the stomach with little effort.  If however, your dog is swallowing the wood, different story...no sticks in that case...but I digress...back to the original question... If you can't isolate the bonsais, boundary training may be the way to go.  Establish the picnic table as a no-go zone.  Every time they approach it, take ownership of the space (physically put yourself there) and correct with a warning tone (eg. Ah-ah!).  If they linger, or touch the table, sharper tone and remove them from the area by crowding them out of it (eg. walk toward them and "box them out").  If they persist, correct via a method with which you are comfortable.  Personally, I find a quick leash correction with a sharp tone takes two or three tries before they get the message. One more thing, I appreciate that your dog has gone through some stuff, but don't let that be an excuse for bad behaviour. Discipline and routine contribute to emotional well-being as much, if not more, than affection and sympathy. Good luck.

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• 05-16-2008 1:47 AM

  In reply to Shohin

  Ixas_girl Joined on 02-01-2007 Southern California Posts 2,391 Points 550

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact Hi Shohin, A friend of mine had good luck training his dogs off the bed using noise aversion. He put soda cans containing pennies on the bed. The dogs didn't like the clatter, so they stopped jumping on the bed. Would your dogs be deterred by noise? Smell? Texture? What about wetness (like wet grass)? Or something flashy, like shiney strips of mylar (that keeps birds out of vineyards)? Bonsai are gorgeous! Do you have pictures of your trees online?   http://dogandgirl.blogspot.com/ You're Good Enough, You're Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like You! ~ Stuart Smalley ~~~ Mary Poppins: I never explain anything.

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• 05-16-2008 9:09 AM

  In reply to chinook

  CoBuHe Joined on 08-03-2007 Southeast Texas Posts 894 Points 35

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact If keeping the bonsais out of reach is impossible by putting some kind of fence around it, then training them to completely stay away is the only option it seems.  It can be done. We have a small vegetable garden as well as grapes that are near the house.  By showing Heidi (16 months old) that it is "not for her", she now knows to keep out.  We started by "claiming" the areas...body blocking her when she showed interest as well as telling her "eh eh".  Same kind of calm body block works at my house when I'm trying to fill water bowls.  My young dog likes to dive in when I'm filling the bowls...but a calm block with only my hand and a "wait" command keeps her out until I tell her "ok".  I have always been nicely surprised as to how that works.  Nothing unpleasant about it all. You might also consider taking some time with an eCollar.  Especially if you'll have the need to keep them away from the area while not supervising them outside.  The eCollar and its remote could work if you are able to see them while you are out of sight.  They get near the table, they get a correction.  Now, you would need some pre-work with the eCollar so you understand that kind of training.  But as you know...dogs don't like "uncomfortable"  so if they associate the table with a bit of a zap, they won't want to be near it.  Just a suggestion if everything else fails.

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• 05-16-2008 10:27 AM

  In reply to corgipower

  Shohin Joined on 08-26-2006 Posts 431 Points 0

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact  Well, I am going to try the body blocking . . . building a fence isn't really a desirable option. I've begun the blocking already today and they seem to be getting the point. I'm taking the same approach with my vegetable garden.  The eCollar crossed my mind, but that is an absolute last resort . . . I've used them before (the RIGHT way) and understand what they can and can't accomplish. If worse comes to worse, thats the route I'll take. I have a couple pictures of my tree's online, but not too many and none of my more valuable/prized tree's . . . I'm reluctant to post pictures in a public forum though as it is not too difficult for someone to track down where I live based on pictures I post and following online activity and walk off with my tree's. It's happened to me once and a friend lost his entire collection that way (almost $25K worth of tree's). It was VERY sad.

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• 05-16-2008 4:12 PM

  In reply to Shohin

  agilebasenji Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 2,387 Points 200	Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact I'm going to go back to the fence suggestion.  Xpens are fairly cheap and very temporary.
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• 05-16-2008 4:33 PM

  In reply to agilebasenji

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 10,137 Points 735

  Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact  You could try an X-Mat: http://www.amazon.com/X-Mat-Pet-Training-Mat-Flexible/dp/B00074W39U Or, a Snappy Trainer: http://www.amazon.com/Snappy-Trainer/dp/B000WP4R52/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1210969864&sr=8-1  I like both of these better than a Scat Mat, because they don't hurt the dog.  Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 05-17-2008 5:19 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  stardog85 Joined on 09-10-2007 South Carolina, USA Posts 1,493 Points 105	Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact ECollars are a last resort for me as well, but if you do go that route, this might me something worth checking out since it is self correcting and can have variable "zones". http://www.dog.com/item/instant-pet-barrier/ Erin, the Amazing Maggie Mae, and Super Puppy Ziva
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• 05-17-2008 8:34 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  luvmyswissy Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 1,542 Points 25	Re: Training a dog to NOT do something . . . Reply Contact An X-mat or (scat) mat is a great idea,  I bet you would see great results.  I would place them around the picnic table on the ground and everytime they got close to the pinic table it would shoo them away.  Good Luck.
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