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Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

Last post 05-04-2008 5:42 PM by calliecritturs. 8 replies.
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  • 04-14-2008 10:23 AM

    • CoBuHe
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    Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

    Heidi is going to the vet this morning because she has something going on with her ears.  I don't think its mites...no black gunk in there.  I cleaned them out with ear cleaner on cotton balls (I didn't irrigate them though).  There really wasn't a lot of debris.  They are red and bothersome though, and she is shaking her head and sometimes holding her head "cockeared" (for lack of a better word).  Massaging feels good to her...its like satisfying an itch, you know?

    I'll ask the vet to do a culture to cover all  possibilities. 

    I'm just curious if this could have been caused by a food change I recently introduced.  They are on Innova Adult and have been for a long time now.  But, 2 weeks ago I introduced some Blue canned foods in mixed with the Kibble.  I'm alternating flavors on a daily basis...Venison, Beef, Chicken, Salmon.

    Thoughts?

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  • 04-14-2008 11:04 AM In reply to CoBuHe

    Re: Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

     I've heard that food can cause ear infections - I don't know why or how, it's just something I heard about.

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  • 04-14-2008 11:34 AM In reply to CoBuHe

    • cakana
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    Re: Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

    Food definitely was the root of all the ear infections that Sassy had and she had a bunch until we switched foods. At the time, we were alternating between lamb/rice and chicken/rice, so I'm not sure which ingredient was the culprit, but switching her to duck & potato (NB) brought a complete end to ear infections and that was a few years ago. Sassy rarely had any gunk in her ears either, but sometimes it's hard to tell unless you flush them. Hopefully the vet can give you some answers today.

    ~ Cathy ~
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  • 04-14-2008 1:28 PM In reply to cakana

    • CoBuHe
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    Re: Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

    The vet diagnosed both a yeast infection and a bacterial infection after a cytology.  We opted not to do a culture at this time.  He said it could be food related, but he thinks in this case it probably isn't.  We live in a very humid region, and that is likely the cause.  Or, it could be seasonal with all of the pollen in the air. 

    He gave me Primor and Ketoconazole to treat both the infections orally; as well as some Mometamax solution to put in the ears once a day.

    I think I will drop the canned food for now just as a precaution. 

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  • 04-14-2008 3:28 PM In reply to CoBuHe

    Re: Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

    "allergies" period ... they love to head for any mucus membrane -- (one of those areas that conduct voisture in and out of the body, air in and out of the body -- and the ears probably chief among them).

    I know I always say this and it's not popular, but ANY allergy can set up ear problems.  A vet told me once (and this is SUCH a good word picture):

    "Allergies are like a bucket that's a little leaky sitting under a faucet that's dripping pretty fast.  It doesn't take long for the bucket to fill up -- and you KNOW all that water is coming from the faucet "allergies".  However -- it's ALL allergies.  Atopic, food, contact, maybe even flea allergy dermatitis.  Maybe the 'first' stuff was atopic ... and then added to the 'drip' was food allergies, etc...

    But when that bucket gets to the top and it begins to overflow -- WHICH drops made it overflow?  "allergy" yes.  But was it the last drops (allergies) to come into the bucket or ... the first?"

    Now ... if you "treat" one type of allergy -- like say a FOOD allergy -- you might slow down the drip.  You might *even* slow it down enough so that the leak 'out' is equal to the drips coming in.  You might *think* you've "fixed" the allergies (leaky faucet/leaky bucket) but you haven't.  Simply because the body .. er "bucket" is handling what's coming in by leaking out that much. 

    But ... the allergies are STILL there and in reality the body is pretty darned 'maxxed' (the bucket is still FULL) and all it takes is one small thing to cause that "allergic reaction"

    But really all it's doing is causing an OVERFLOW - the allergic reaction is already there and it's ALREADY maxxed.  So often people stop assuming that "my dog is allergic to ____ food and that's all".  But it isn't really.  It's just that FOOD that puts it over the top and causes the overflow to begin again.

    But really that body is already overloaded.  The body really shouldn't "react" to one (or many) foods.  Food may just be the EASY thing to figure out to do.  You can control food where you can't control what the dog breathes or walks on."

    Essentially she was encouraging people not to just see "allergies" as a food allergy.  But as a whole array with food being perhaps the easiest one to begin with. 

    But she always contended that if food allergies were involved -- and yes, they ARE likely -- they are probably secondary.  There was likely "allergy" BEFORE food.  Other allergy that is there and not dealt with.  And the body may develop more and more and more allergies to anything 'new' if those underlying allergy issues aren't addressed.

    This is NOT a popular concept -- it's far more popular to jump from food to food assuming it's the sole culprit.  But I can tell you -- watch the calendar.  Atopioc allergies bust out on ears in the spring and fall big-time.  And guess what -- it's April!!


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  • 04-14-2008 4:27 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • CoBuHe
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    Re: Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

    Thanks Callie, I always enjoy your holistic ideas and remedies. 

    Exactly...its April.  So, likely its a seasonal allergy and the change in food (rather introduction of new foods) has sent the allergy over the top, aggravating it even more.

    I'm not crazy about having to give her both of those oral medications, but I know I need to knock out the infection completely so that we don't run into a chronic situation.  I've had a GSD in the past who had a lifetime of ear problems and in the long run, lost his hearing.  So, we will be diligent in treating this correctly.

    And, as I read on another thread, I think I'll add a clove of garlic to her meals to add a little boost.

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  • 04-19-2008 10:25 PM In reply to CoBuHe

    Re: Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

    It would be good to stick with one protein at a time to see if it would be the beef or chicken. Trudy gets bad ears with both. She eats venison, lamb and salmon safely.

    It can be food and also pollen etc. Food is easy to at least narrow down. Grains, beef and chicken are easy to stop to see if one is the cause.

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  • 05-04-2008 2:35 PM In reply to sallya

    Re: Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

         This is my experience with ear infections, FWIW. Surprisingly enough, my Beagles seldom have infected ears, however, when they do have a problem, it's always with a yeast infection, and 99.9% of the time that seems to be food related - not neccessarily that ingredients in the diet were the trigger, however. Sometimes, yes, an ingredient causes it. I know that foods or vitamins with high amounts of brewer's yeast will cause yeast infections in their ears, and so far, that seems to be the only single ingredient that causes a problem for some of them.
         When the infection is bacterial in nature, I agree with the poster who suggested allergies as the root problem. The mutt has immune system problems from the time he was a pup ... he had pneumonia @ 4-5 months old and still has seasonal allergies. For the past five years, he's had chronic eye & ear infections, and some coat problems. Food really isn't a trigger for the ear infections, because they are almost always bacterial. There is still a diet connection, and by that I mean a food that agrees with him and is well digested is the single best way to keep his immune system strong. He does have food triggers, and they are flaxseed, banannas, kelp and too much raw meat in the diet, and too much chicken meal.
         This dog's ear infections are terrible. He's had an ongoing one for 2yrs. He's been on Otomax, Mometamax, oral antibiotics, steroids. Nothing. The infection is never completely knocked out, tho it gets better for a while. So the best way we can treat the infection is to support his immune system. Bee pollen and Vitamin C are helpful, they give him some relief. Now I did mention that diet doesn't trigger those nasty bacterial infections, but we've found that an easily digestable "bland" food has helped build his immune system and that does give him some relief - a starting point where we can treat the infections with some success.
         Also, just wanted to point out, I had better luck treating his flare ups with amoxicillin and a solution of 50% peroxide 50% Listerine than I did with the overpriced ear ointments from the Vet. The Listerine mix works fast & keeps the infection away longer, and is of course, much easier to apply for routine maintenance.
         So definitely look at this dog's diet, but the best way you can help the meds work is to treat the root of the problem - the immune system.

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  • 05-04-2008 5:42 PM In reply to HoundMusic

    Re: Ear Infection caused by the food (?) CoBuHe

    Ok -- this thread has come back to life, and I've seen a ton of discussion on this issue lately, so I feel like it's time to make some points here.  This is long, and I'm sorry, but we're throwing around words here that are losing their meaning because everyone 'means' something a little bit different by them. 

    So me, being *me*, I'm going to say let's stop here and look at what we're really saying.  We're throwing around words like "infection caused by food" and even the word "infection" may be unclear.

     "infection" -- according to Webster, these two sub-definitions are pertinent with the use here:  "a disease resulting from infection" and "the establishment of a pathogen in its host after invasion"

    Bottom line -- an "infection" comes from bacteria ...or bacteria/virus/fungi generally. 

    Often one infection actually is several -- for example -- a "yeast infection" -- yeast is a fungus.  It's not bacteria and it's not viral.  However -- it  proliferates in a warm, moist environment (dog ears are perfect for it) -- but what makes the 'environment' more suitable FOR infection is when the tissues become inflamed for some reason.  OR because some form of bacteria or 'thing' (I like the word 'thing' better than pathogen) has caused a problem.

    Bacteria can cause infection -- but typically the immune system *should* be able to fight off bacteria.  But if the body is weak, OR if the tissue is already irritated (because of underlying atopic allergies and particularly ear tissue is very sensitive and can react easily to what allergens the body has to deal wtih) THEN any passing bacterium can suddenly blow into an infection **because the body was set up for it**.

    If a dog has a yeasty ear infection that then can give rise to a deeper bacterial infection just because infection loves to embrace new kinds of infection.  At the very least yeast infections in the ears and other places on the body LOVES staph infection (bacteria) -- staph is literally everywhere, so staph is a natural to be introduced into a current yeast infection and then you have not just a yeast infection but also a bacterial one.  But typically staph is pretty easily killed -- even tho most "yeast infections" usually have a staphy component to them.

    But then it can go deeper -- the dog paws at the ears, or maybe even some thing the dog rubs on has a worse bacteria on it, or one time I had a groomer who caused deep bacterial infection because she used poor cleaning methods that actually introduced bacteria rather than helping. 

    Food doesn't *cause* ear infections -- not unless the dog has ingested some thing that is full of e coli or something.  HOWEVER -- a food intolerance can cause irritation of the mucus membranes in the ear -- THAT resulting irritation can then take off and zoom with any yeast present (moist, warm environment) and you've got infection.

    The food caused irritation -- literally a 'set up' for the infection to happen fast and hard.

    I hope I'm clear here -- it's not the food itself.  The food isn't loaded with bacteria or yeast.  But the body is **intolerant** to the food, or perhaps even allergic to it -- THAT makes irritation and soreness which then gets infected by yeast, bacteria or whatever. 

    That might sound nitpicky -- but it's not.  Everything houndmusic says about the immune system is right on target -- but everyone else is right when they say their dog is sensitive to this or that meat or additive.

    One of the reasons I'm mentioning this is because if a dog has to be on a very limited diet because of food allergies then you have to continually be vigilant to make sure that the nutritional needs are being met (which is why often the specialty foods are so highly supplemented).

    But once those mucus membranes are irritated then multiple things can occur. 

    Houndmusic - if you have a dog who has had a constant ear problem for two years you need, honestly, to have the vet do a culture & sensitivity on those ears because you run the risk of a deep, undetected bacterial infection being present that isn't getting addressed (and which is just growing more and more resistant to gentler antibiotics). 

    There comes a time when nothing can replace a culture & sensitivity.  You can simply swab a culture from inside the ear and most vets have a microscope to look and detect the presence of bacteria.  BUT a culture and sensitivity goes a step further that can be necessary after a while.

    The vet takes the special swab and takes a sample from inside the ear, the tube is sealed and sent to a lab.  Then the lab 'grows' whatever that culture will produce.  Staph, Strep, e-coli, pseudomonas, etc. or whatever else will 'grow' and they identify it.

    THEN the next step (that is part of the point of this) is they then expose whatever has "grown" to various antibiotics.  They then rate which antibiotics work, which don't work, and which do it best (how fast and completely they 'kill' whatever has grown). 

    So the report you get back literally tells you what "organisms" (lovely word, eh??  don't we all want to think of what "organisms" are in our dog's ears YUCK) -- but exactly what they are AND what will kill them.  This way the vet can prescribe the best antibiotic for the job.  Maybe not the strongest -- no stronger than necessary.  But it avoids exposing the dog to antibiotics that *won't* do the job because the bacteria/organism is resistant to it.

    Why??  Why is it important to actually *kill* bacteria?

    When the ears are inflamed year after year, the ear canal tissue ossifies -- it literally turns to bone.  That strangles blood vessels and literally the inside of the ear will putrefy and die.  Then oral antibiotics are a waste and the dog will ultimately die if left untreated -- if an abscess forms that explodes into the brain (meningitis).

    I had a cocker who had a life history of ear problems, and then I had a vet who was purely an idiot (no aspersions cast on anyone else's vet -- this was one of those guys who didn't even wash his hands before surgery).  This guy messed around for a year placating me with this and that ointment, cream, etc. ... none of which 'cured' the problem.

    It was also a dog with a life-long demodex problem (yep, Houndmusic - **immune problems**) but ultimately we had to have his ears removed (bi-lateral ear albations) and guess what?  The immune problems WENT AWAY. 

    The problem truly was, the immune system was constantly stressed because of the underlying infection that constantly was at odds with the body -- so altho we prolonged things by boosting his immune system, once we got rid of the ears (he had e-coli and strep in those ears - we had pathology done on them after they were excised) but the ear canals were so ossified that even tho we had finally *found* the infection it couldn't be treated because the inflammatory damage to the body was too great.

    A lot of you have heard me talk about how food allergies are often 'secondary'.      And yet many of you maintain ... and **you are right** that by simply withholding this or that food that the problem clears up.

    But my point is this -- the body truly *should be able to* tolerate most foods -- a true food **allergy** is rare (like a human who can't breathe after eating shrimp or peanuts) -- but a food **intolerance** is pretty common.

    But under healthy circumstances the dog SHOULD be able to tolerate those foods and if the body was dealing with allergies normally then one food shouldn't send the body into such severe reaction.  so yes, maybe witholding a particular food can help keep the ears from breaking out, typically if the body is in that high of a state of allergy alert, then most anything can be a culprit and anything *new* often creates more of an allergy problem.

    Please don't misunderstand me - I'm not telling you to give a sensitive dog chicken, beef or whatever.  Not at all -- but I'm telling you that just withholding that *thing* isn't the complete answer to the problem and to at least be aware that there are likely other allergy things going on and it might be wise to try to treat them *also*. 


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