Great Dane bite

• 04-09-2008 8:33 PM

  dyan Joined on 09-10-2007 Ohio Posts 4,685 Points 105

  Great Dane bite Reply Contact Looking for advise for a friend who called me today for help. She has 4 Great Danes. She is actually a client at the vet I work at but we kind of because friends because we have our danes in common.  Tiger is the last one she got..... he is about 9 months old...maybe a month or so more. Tonight she was walking Tiger and a female that is a few years old. They were walking past an old man with his small dog.....they see them all the time as the man walks this dog everyday.  Friend always moves to the side to let people by..and she did but went to the other side this time...for whatever THAT is worth.  As they were walking by, Tiger charged the little dog.... she said she coudn't believe it..... the little dog did not bark or do anything, Tiger just went after it..she got dragged down by the two danes... and while she was trying to get up and get in control...the man was trying to break up the dogs... which Tiger actually had in his mouth. She said she couldn't believe she had no control over him.  The other dane did not do anything...just kind of went along for the ride.......  The mad was swearing and all...she offered to pay if he took the dog to the vet but she said he just grumbled something about it never happened before.     She was going to go figure out where he lived and check on him and the dog becasue she was equally worried about the old man as she was his dog.....but then she figured it was best that she not...   for fear of getting in trouble..thinking maybe she should drop it if he is.    She called me because she was so upset.....looking for another head to try to figure out why Tiger did it.  She has never had any problem with him at all ever. In fact,,she gave me Tigers breeders name to get a new Dane from since Bubby is gone....becasue he is so good natured.      Now we are trying to figure out why he might have done this.  I have to say..earlier this week she was at my clinic to make an appt for one of her other dogs....and Tiger did bark kind of bad at another dog that walked in...and she was mad at him and surprised he did it.   So I told her that she has to consider he is getting older...he no longer is that puppy.   We are also trying to think if maybe he did it because he somehow was protecting the other female Dane.  She is just so upset...such a nice lady and good person.  She had spend the day at the doctors with a son that has problems....so  she did'nt have as much time to walk the dogs...so she took 2 together tonight.  She normally does'nt do that anymore...   Does anyone have any ideas about why Tiger might have done this?  I kind of think in a way,,,he is a dog....dogs sometimes do things like that...the fact that he is a big powerful dog...and the fact that there were 2 of them...the mom really would have a hard time controlling them. Dyan and Bubby

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• 04-09-2008 10:51 PM

  In reply to dyan

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,151 Points 25

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact  Well, the 2 things that come to my mind are Is he neutered? If he isn't, probably should be, might cool his jets a little and make him less protective of the female Dane if that was why he behaved that way.  And 2nd, it could be the age and he's feeling his oats and testing his boundaries.  Which means she needs to get in control and quite quick so he doesn't get it in his head that Hey, I'm a big guy and I can get away with stuff!  A consult with a behaviorist might be helpful.  Has he had any formal obedience training?  With his size, she'll need to have really good control of him before that terrible adolescence sets in.  But she probably knows this already if she has other Danes. Needless to say, she should walk him alone for the time being and a head halter might keep him from being able to lunge at other dogs while she works things out.  That must've been really upsetting for her!  "I wonder what goes through his mind when he sees us peeing in his water bowl" Penny Ward Moser Save a life, make a shelter pet part of your family.

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• 04-09-2008 11:41 PM

  In reply to BCMixs

  Pwca Joined on 09-10-2006 Dallas, Texas Posts 1,305 Points 305

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact To be honest? With a situation like this, the why doesn't matter right now. Firstly, if he's not neutered, I'd get him neutered ASAP, and I'd find a way for her to walk him where she DOES have physical control of him- prong, head collar- whatever it takes. Danes are big strong dogs, and a predatory one could easily kill a smaller dog. Picking up and shaking, to me, sounds very much like potentially predatory behavior. Next, I would find the best qualified behavioral trainer or behaviorist in your area and get him seriously evaluated and go from there.

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• 04-10-2008 9:36 AM

  In reply to Pwca

  AgileGSD Joined on 09-16-2007 Posts 381 Points 0

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact  I'm surprised that the first two replies are "is he neutered?" when this doesn't sound like an intact dog issue at all to me. If it is predatory (which it may be with the little dog) or fear based (likely what you saw at the vet's) neutering is not going to make a bit of difference. At nine months old with a giant breed this is so unlikely to be an issue of the dog being too macho as he is still a puppy, although  very large one. I have known some mature, overly same sex aggressive dogs who were helped by neutering but that is a much more specific issue. I just don't see this as being most likely to be dominance related dog aggressive. I'm not saying that this dog should or should not be neutered but that it isn't realistic to think neutering will help this situation  So my first question would not be "is he neutered" but how much training has she done with this dog? Did she properly socialize him? She needs training help with him and should have started training when he was a puppy. The truth is LOTS of people's dogs act this way towards other dogs but not everyone's dog can drag them over to actually do something to the other dog. Waking them together is a big no-no, at least until both are well trained. In addition to the issue of the two dogs being able to drag her after another dog, together these two will become more pack oriented making the puppy is likely to become much bolder than he would be on his own.  I also wouldn't take this as a bad sign about the breeder, if you are looking to get a puppy from them. Just make sure if you do, that you start training ASAP - my advice for anyone who is getting a large, sometimes prtective/reactive breed.

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• 04-10-2008 10:22 AM

  In reply to AgileGSD

  snownose Joined on 09-29-2006 Michigan to Southeast Posts 5,178 Points 405

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact I have seen this type of behavior before when I was volunteering at a rabies clinic years ago.......this guy showed up with two Dalmations male/female......the male Dalmation wasn't fully matured yet, but any dog that even came close to to him or the female was being charged as far  as the leash would allow........this is my thinking.......male guarding female........ Dyan did write the dog could possibly be a month or so older....that could place him closer to one year old......I am sure a Great Dane at that age is somewhat mature.....

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• 04-10-2008 12:58 PM

  In reply to dyan

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 9,945 Points 715

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact This could be male guarding female, or predatory, but it could also be that the little dog locked eyes with a dog that was too big for him to handle.  We always seem to want to forget that little dogs are still dogs.  At any rate, I think the suggestions about gaining control through training and a behavior consultation are worthwhile.  A dog that large should already have a "leave it" command installed, and if not, she shouldn't waste any time teaching him. If she cannot hold the two dogs, perhaps she needs equipment to give her some leverage - Snoot Loop, Gentle Leader.  I would not trust that a Dane would not be able to simply drag a person while wearing a prong or a harness.   Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 04-10-2008 4:07 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  dyan Joined on 09-10-2007 Ohio Posts 4,685 Points 105

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact Okay,,thanks for the answers and ideas guys!    And first of all,,,Tiger is neutered.   She has been taking him to training since she got him..in fact one of the biggest reasons for her being upset is that he is training to be a service dog.  She has him out all the time...most of the dogs she takes with her one at a time.  One of them is very dominate so she does'nt mess with him around people..but takes the others. Today she had 141 lb Baby in our clinic...what a doll.....and she is not the "good" one of the bunch...Tiger is and that is why she is so shocked and hurt by what he did. The truth is LOTS of people's dogs act this way towards other dogs but not everyone's dog can drag them over to actually do something to the other dog. That is what I told her Anne..... that Tiger was just doing what DOGS do sometimes...but unfortunately she had giant dogs.... and two of them to boot.  Plus she got caught completely off guard and was not paying enough attention to what was happening...and once she got pulled it was too late.   Believe me...today with Baby..I walked out of the back with her where she got her eyes checked...and Baby saw her Mom out there and yanked me almost off my feet.   I am used to a Dane...but caught just a little off guard myself. Today she told me that she talked to the trainer who she is working with.....and will be attending personalized classes starting in two weeks.  She said to me today..."I'm not taking any of them for walks for a long time...."     I felt sorry for her..and she will over come it...but that is what I felt like when Bubby got away from me (when I first got her) to go '"play" with a yellow lab down the street.  Her idea of "playing" is running circles around the other dog.....and try to grab him with her mouth on the way by!   I was horrified and was afraid to walk her for the next few months.    Dyan and Bubby

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• 04-10-2008 4:29 PM

  In reply to dyan

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,151 Points 25

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact  I hope she has an alternate way of getting him exercised.  A dog of that age without exercise will drive you nuts!  It probably won't help the issue she's dealing with either.  I wish her luck, it must be very upsetting and disappointing to have a service dog prospect behave in that way.  "I wonder what goes through his mind when he sees us peeing in his water bowl" Penny Ward Moser Save a life, make a shelter pet part of your family.

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• 04-11-2008 12:22 PM

  In reply to dyan

  mudpuppy Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 5,369 Points 100	Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact great danes were originally bred to run down and kill other animals. Many have high prey drive and go after cats, squirrels, small dogs, horses, deer...
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• 04-11-2008 5:43 PM

  In reply to mudpuppy

  AuroraLove Joined on 11-26-2007 Posts 1,072 Points 330

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact I gotta agree with Spiritdogs and Mudpuppy. I think it was a combo of both things. The way you describe it dosnt seem like aggression but a uncontrollable instinct by a puppy who dosnt know whats ok and whats not. No growl, no warning, no previous aggression, its sounds as if he was like "ooh a lil creature....lemme at it"! I can almost picture him afterward like "Hey why si everyone so mad? Oh no did I do that? sorry, I couldtn help myself" And I dont mean like instinct, I mean like a young child who got caught licking frosting off a cake. I am of course making assumptions based upon my experience with Danes, which of course isnt as much as the OP's but a lot of peole take Danes for granted becasue they are so big but they are SUCH puppies! IDK, what does the owner think? Does she think it was like oops didnt mean to or he has issues?

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• 04-11-2008 5:48 PM

  In reply to AuroraLove

  AuroraLove Joined on 11-26-2007 Posts 1,072 Points 330

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact To speculate even further I remember when Rory killed her first animal. It was a bird and she was so very excited. I didnt get the hint when she was running from outside to me as if saying "Hey mom come look what I've got". By the time I realized she was trying to get my attention it was practically stomped to death. It wasnt this vicous attack where she grabbed it in her mouth and shook. It started with curiosity and she was kinda dancing around it like "Hey mom when I step on it, its squeaks". She was actually jubilant, would bat at it, run around the yard, come back check on it and it was a very playful type encounter that left this poor bird dead. Afterwards she kept sniffing around like where'd he go? I tell that story with the complete opposite situation in mind. When she got a turkey it was a attack, she was pissed it was in our yard and she went after that thing with intent. She was a babe during the first episode and over a year when the turley incident happened.

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• 04-11-2008 5:56 PM

  In reply to AuroraLove

  Winnie's Dad Joined on 02-26-2008 (DC Suburbs) Maryland, USA Posts 28 Points 30

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact ..."I'm not taking any of them for walks for a long time...."     This is not always the best plan, and often will make the situation worse by undersocializing the dogs.  She should continue to walk the dogs one at a time, and be careful to work with the trainer and find the dog's threshold, and stay well under it.     ~wd (this space available for a witty sig...)

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• 04-11-2008 6:04 PM

  In reply to Winnie's Dad

  dyan Joined on 09-10-2007 Ohio Posts 4,685 Points 105

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact IDK, what does the owner think? Does she think it was like oops didnt mean to or he has issues? She just was in total shock...she couldn't believe it. She said of all the dogs...never this one. Any of her others she watches a little more carefully... even though they are good,,,just because they are big and you just never know. But Tiger is her big goofy guy who just is happy go lucky...who cares kind of guy.     I think we sometimes take our dogs for granted...and she did with Tiger..forgetting he is growing up. Thanks for the thoughts everyone...... I'm going to pass some of these ideas on to her.  And by the way...I bet she didn't really  mean it when she said she wasnt' going to walk any of them ever again...she was just shook. Dyan and Bubby

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• 04-11-2008 6:30 PM

  In reply to dyan

  AuroraLove Joined on 11-26-2007 Posts 1,072 Points 330	Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact Obviously I cant say for sure but it sounds to me like he's a big goofy pup who got to excited and it just happeend. Tell your friend it dosnt mean he is aggressive and its not unheard for some big dogs to not be trusted around smaller dogs that can be mistaken for prey animals.
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• 04-14-2008 8:02 AM

  In reply to AuroraLove

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 9,945 Points 715

  Re: Great Dane bite Reply Contact AuroraLove: Obviously I cant say for sure but it sounds to me like he's a big goofy pup who got to excited and it just happeend. Tell your friend it dosnt mean he is aggressive and its not unheard for some big dogs to not be trusted around smaller dogs that can be mistaken for prey animals.   It's true that dogs which chase and kill prey are not necessarily aggressive to humans, but this is a service dog prospect, and a service dog, because it has public access, must be trustworthy in all public situations, including places where other pet owners may be walking with their tiny dogs.  It just isn't ok for this dog to continue such behavior and do that work.  He could be a fine pet, but if he's doing service work, he must be under her control at all times, and if that can't be insured, better to start another dog and let him go to a pet home that has a secure environment.  Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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