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Re-training commands that are ignored

Last post 03-23-2008 12:56 PM by JRTzoey. 7 replies.
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  • 03-20-2008 11:59 PM

    Re-training commands that are ignored

    We are in the process of trying to retrain Jamie (15 mos Belgian Mal x) to have basic obedience skills; she's smart, high energy, and needs something to stimulate her brain! The problem we are running into is that between her previous owner and my father (who interacts with her on a somewhat regular basis), they have turned her obedience commands into background noise. They would shout commands like "COME!" while she is playing with the other dogs (setting her up to fail b/c they never had her attention in the first place), tell her "DOWN" when she was on the sofa instead of "OFF" (and then getting mad when she lies down on the couch or ignores them), and saying "SIT! SIT! SIT! SIT! SIT!" when she greets someone at the door to the point that even I am tuning it out as background noise. She is now at the point where almost everything is white noise and I'm going back to name recognition exercises (saying "Jamie!" and when she looks at me, click and treat). I've talked with my father about using the correct commands, at the correct time, in the correct manner, but he doesn't really see the difference and old habits die hard. So, we are toying with the idea of training her in German so that we can start from scratch. Is this a crazy idea? (Keep in mind that my father will continue to have interaction with her and my biggest worry is that any progress that we make in English will be undone by dad's inconsistent use of the commands.) Has anyone done this? I know it will be like starting from scratch (though we have been working on hand cues) but it seems like it would be easier to just learn German commands than to un-learn/re-learn the English commands...
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  • 03-21-2008 12:26 AM In reply to stormyknight

    Re: Re-training commands that are ignored

    As I read the beginning of your post, I was going to suggest teaching different commands. German would be OK, you might want to look at some other languages. Some can be a little harder for *you* to learn, but some of the German commands are similar to english (especially "Sitz" (German) - "Sit" (English), "Aus" - "Out", "Hier" in German is for the recall, but many dogs think it sounds like "heel". A list of some of the commands in multiple languages can be found here ~ http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/languag1.htm
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  • 03-21-2008 6:59 AM In reply to corgipower

    Re: Re-training commands that are ignored

    Yep - it's often good to find another word for things like "come" if the dog has always ignored that word or associated it with the end of fun time or something bad. There's websites out there with basic commands in german to learn. 

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  • 03-21-2008 8:18 AM In reply to Jewlieee

    • mrv
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    Re: Re-training commands that are ignored

    The general language commands that exist in most household are typically contaminated when you consider competition.  It is very easy for dogs to learn a dual set of commands (heck they do that already by assigning levels of performance to a command based on who gave it).  The real challenge is often to the trainer, not the dog.  I know many competition folks who have full sets of commands that are different for each obedience competition dog.  If you want to use foreign language commands go for it,  but since she is a belgian dont your think French or Flemish would be more appropriate Wink

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  • 03-21-2008 5:15 PM In reply to stormyknight

    • Deuce
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    Re: Re-training commands that are ignored

    I think that could be a fun solution. It's the same as the theory behind the clicker - being able to use a new sound that is not common and habituated away improves the learning curve.

    The last stage of knowledge for a dog is the ability to generalize the command to different places and people. While I understand your frustrations, I do want to say that I think a long term training goal would be for your dog to acknowledge and respect the sit, come here, down commands from your father. Those commands can be in English or German or whatever you want, but Jamie needs to have respect for all the members of the pack, not just the one that is above her in her viewpoint!

    I would guess that your father might not have been too enthused about being told that he needed to be consistent toward a disobedient dog. Not only do we men have big, fragile egos, but it can also be frustrating to deal with a dog that doesn't sit on the first command and waits for that sit, siT, sIT, SIT. My guess is he'll come around when he sees that Jamie is making progress toward being a good, obedient member of the family.Yes 

     

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  • 03-23-2008 11:12 AM In reply to mrv

    Re: Re-training commands that are ignored

    Deuce - I didn't mean to imply that I was blaming my father - I certainly understand his frustrations. My other Belgian is very well trained, uncomplicated, and obedient. Even the schnauzer has made leaps and bounds in the last few months, so my parents are used to my dogs being well-socialized, well-trained animals. I even get frustrated with Jamie sometimes! And the end goal is for her to obey anyone who gives her a command (English or other)...the problem is that she is so confused right now that she doesn't know which way is up. My father is a man who likes to see results QUICKLY and he is having a hard time understanding that she will not become trained overnight. It will get easier when I move out next week...
    mrv:
    but since she is a belgian dont your think French or Flemish would be more appropriate Wink
    LOL I wish I could! I'm going to butcher the German language as it is, though my vet just told me to use Dutch because the commands sound different from English commands. So she may end up with Dutch commands instead...
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  • 03-23-2008 11:27 AM In reply to mrv

    Re: Re-training commands that are ignored

    mrv:

    The general language commands that exist in most household are typically contaminated when you consider competition.  It is very easy for dogs to learn a dual set of commands (heck they do that already by assigning levels of performance to a command based on who gave it).  The real challenge is often to the trainer, not the dog.  I know many competition folks who have full sets of commands that are different for each obedience competition dog.  If you want to use foreign language commands go for it,  but since she is a belgian dont your think French or Flemish would be more appropriate Wink

    My english trained dog responds to german commands, my german trained dog responds to english commands, and there are a bunch of kids in the town I live in that know the german commands simply from watching me train my dogs at the park. With a high level of unresponsiveness to commands, I do think that changing to a different language is wise. But keep in mind too that dogs can learn who to obey and who to ignore. Just because my dog is proficient in "sit" or "come" doesn't mean he'll perform for anyone who issues the command.
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  • 03-23-2008 12:56 PM In reply to corgipower

    • JRTzoey
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    Re: Re-training commands that are ignored

     i love the idea of training a dog in a different language! i would definately use one that has a different sound than english tho, if your goal is to "re-train" her. when you suggested german i thought that you yourself spoke it!

    i'd say, whatever language you chose, make sure you're pronouncing the word right. tha last thing you want is to use the command in the presence of a [german/dutch/whatever] speaking person and have them tell you you're saying rude things to your dog lol...

    goed dag, een goed geluk!!! (god day and good luck! - dutch)  ;)

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