Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY

• 03-17-2008 2:41 PM

  Pomeranian <3 Joined on 01-03-2008 MASSACHUSETTS Posts 1,065 Points 545

  Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact A lot of my clients ask about "Cesar Milan" methods. (many of you trainers may have experienced this as well) All though Cesar is not a trainer and all though it is a TV show (for entertainment purposes) I would like to incorporate some of this "methods" and "techniques" into my classes for fun and for "interest purposes of the client." I spoke with my GM & ZCEI and they said absolutely (since PETCO sponsors his TV shows). I want to make sure I'm introducing certain "techniques" correctly but still getting across to my clients that it is just a TV show and to never attempt his methods without consulting myself or another professional. CURRENT TECHNIQUE: I use Positive Reinforcement training with CLICKERS/TREATS/VOCAL PRAISE. The classes I do are Puppy, Basic Obedience, Intermediate/Clicker, AKC CGC. Most of the "Cesar" inquiries are from the Puppy & Basic classes.

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• 03-17-2008 3:04 PM

  In reply to Pomeranian <3

  FourIsCompany Joined on 07-30-2007 Posts 4,738 Points 1,135	Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact I think that would really be fun! Do you have a particular question about it or are you just throwing it out there for comment? A Good Place to Start   LSTM (Laughing Silently to Myself) Click Daily to Give Free Food and Care to Animals: http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3
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• 03-17-2008 3:12 PM

  In reply to FourIsCompany

  Pomeranian <3 Joined on 01-03-2008 MASSACHUSETTS Posts 1,065 Points 545

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact Everyone seems to enjoy his "calm submissive state" theory & techniques when it comes to excitement around distractions, barking, and dominance. (I've now been recording Dog Whisperer on my DVR so I can watch as many shows as I can... I might end up just buying the DVDs) A lot of the rescue dogs in my class are having a very difficult time. They just want the treat/toy (reward) and don't really care about anything else besides all the distractions going on around them. The owners are newbies, frustraited, nervious, and anxious. I think a fun/great idea would be to use some Cesar "rehabilitation" examples & techniques on how to become the leader/boss and have your dog focus on you and go into a submissive state. His "the bite" and "the touch" etc... (first and foremost i have always suggested more exercise before our classes & in general) I'm going to check out that link now.... :o)

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• 03-24-2008 8:57 PM

  In reply to FourIsCompany

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts 7,110 Points 850

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact I think to use his methods correctly, you need to consider that he does not condone using them based on watching his TV show, and he is always talking about how he is working with red zone cases.  Many of the dogs he takes in or takes as clients would have been put to sleep otherwise, because of severe behavioral problems.  I get from him that his methods are not really intended to be used on dogs in basic obedience classes, they are for dogs that are aggressive, neurotic, extremely fearful, very under-socialized, etc.  vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop RA CL1-F CL1-R TT HIC TDI CGC ("Kenya", GSD) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC ("Coke", All American) Alta-Tollhaus' Bono ("Nikon", GSD)

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• 03-24-2008 9:54 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  FourIsCompany Joined on 07-30-2007 Posts 4,738 Points 1,135

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact I was under the impression she meant the philosophies of Exercise, Discipline and Affection and Rules, Boundaries and Limitations. And being the pack leader and walking the dog instead of the dog walking you. Stuff like that. I could be wrong. LSTM (Laughing Silently to Myself) Click Daily to Give Free Food and Care to Animals: http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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• 03-24-2008 10:17 PM

  In reply to FourIsCompany

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts 7,110 Points 850

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact FourIsCompany: I was under the impression she meant the philosophies of Exercise, Discipline and Affection and Rules, Boundaries and Limitations. And being the pack leader and walking the dog instead of the dog walking you. Stuff like that. I could be wrong.   True, but any proven training method is based on the this same principle.  I guess it's not something I see as unique to Cesar and therefore wouldn't really credit to him (NILIF, for example) just to feed into the hype.  Have them watch It's Me or the Dog.....same philosophies at work there, and she's been around for a while, sans hit TV show. vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop RA CL1-F CL1-R TT HIC TDI CGC ("Kenya", GSD) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC ("Coke", All American) Alta-Tollhaus' Bono ("Nikon", GSD)

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• 03-25-2008 11:40 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  Pomeranian <3 Joined on 01-03-2008 MASSACHUSETTS Posts 1,065 Points 545

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact Liesje: FourIsCompany: I was under the impression she meant the philosophies of Exercise, Discipline and Affection and Rules, Boundaries and Limitations. And being the pack leader and walking the dog instead of the dog walking you. Stuff like that. I could be wrong.   True, but any proven training method is based on the this same principle.  I guess it's not something I see as unique to Cesar and therefore wouldn't really credit to him (NILIF, for example) just to feed into the hype.  Have them watch It's Me or the Dog.....same philosophies at work there, and she's been around for a while, sans hit TV show. WELL here is my issue... I'm getting a lot of clients for classes (great!) but I want to say about 30% of them are rescue dogs with a lot of behavior issues that go beyond the need of basic obedience. A lot of them keep bringing up "Cesar" methods and I want to provide further resource for them but CORRECTLY. A huge mistake people make with obedience classes are they walk in thinking just taking the class is going to "fix" their so called "broken" dog. Barking, Chewing, Aggression, Fear... these are all behaviors that "Sit, Down, Come, Heal" are not going to fix. I've all ready helped one lady and her Chihuahua stop barking obessively through more exercise and discipline... but what about the others? I got biten by a JRT in a private session... bit... they left because they felt so guilty. Honestly my heart goes out to the dog and I want a way to help this woman other than writing a letter to NGC "calling on the dog whisperer" haha. The woman clearly babies & shelters this dog then refuses to correct the fear agression... After becoming a basic obedience trainer I have realized how many more dogs have behavior issues verses obedience issues. Yeah cool their dog will sit for me. But they are in a frantic behavior freak out throughout the whole time. I love to witness people adopting all of these dogs from Lab Rescue, Boxer Rescue, or Kill Shelters that were far away... I commend them on that behalf but I don't commend them not understanding when rescuing a dog you are bringing in a box of issues to your home and you have to be dedicated enough to deal with it. Right now if you looked at my arms you'd think I was hurting myself... but no it's from a Golden and his bad jumping habbits. The dog was going ballistic the whole time! Not to mention his poor physical condition; I would touch the dog and hair would just fall off all over the place. They never brush him, never walk him, don't have a yard... ?!?!?!?! Now I have bloody scars all down my arms because they said "oh you have to clip their nails every month? we haven't in 3 years, haha!" they didn't even own a brush!!! (these are some of the people I'm dealing with... help!! it's making me, a first time trainer, SCARED!)

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• 03-25-2008 11:58 AM

  In reply to Pomeranian <3

  Gizmo83036 Joined on 02-07-2007 Southwest US Posts 135 Points 0

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact Pomeranian <3: 30% of them are rescue dogs with a lot of behavior issues that go beyond the need of basic obedience I got biten by a JRT in a private session... bit... they left because they felt so guilty. After becoming a basic obedience trainer I have realized how many more dogs have behavior issues verses obedience issues help!! it's making me, a first time trainer, SCARED!   Some dogs have no business being in a training environment like Petco, particularly with an inexperienced trainer. Nothing against you or Petco, but you shouldn't be referring these people to Cesar, you should be referring them to a qualified behaviorist that will make in-home visits or works out of a dedicated training facility. I admire that you are trying to help, but some situations may be out of your ability, even with the great advice you may get here.

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• 03-25-2008 12:19 PM

  In reply to Gizmo83036

  DPU Joined on 09-19-2006 Indiana Posts 4,412 Points 360

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact Gizmo83036: Some dogs have no business being in a training environment like Petco, particularly with an inexperienced trainer. Nothing against you or Petco, but you shouldn't be referring these people to Cesar, you should be referring them to a qualified behaviorist that will make in-home visits or works out of a dedicated training facility. I admire that you are trying to help, but some situations may be out of your ability, even with the great advice you may get here. I agree and unless there is real experience and proven results by a professional trainer, a qualfied behaviorist shoud be giving the advice.  Understanding one particular training method such as clicker training requires instructions, training, and practice over a long period of time.  To gain an understanding of Cesar's philosphy one should read his books, visit his sites, watch his tv program, and research discussion on him.  The education won't happen on one dog discussion board and it would be unfair to the paying client to represent his philosphy without doing the research, not to mention the liability you would assume. I try and keep up with member's happening and do recall Pomeranian just being hired by Petco in mid-February for an administrative part time position.   Last I read, Pomeranian was just being trained for basic puppy obedience class.  In a one month period, how does one go from store clerk to behaviorist?

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• 03-25-2008 12:54 PM

  In reply to Pomeranian <3

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts 7,110 Points 850

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact Pomeranian <3: WELL here is my issue... I'm getting a lot of clients for classes (great!) but I want to say about 30% of them are rescue dogs with a lot of behavior issues that go beyond the need of basic obedience. A lot of them keep bringing up "Cesar" methods and I want to provide further resource for them but CORRECTLY. I would refer them to a local behaviorist, which is what Cesar's disclaimer does on the TV show.  If they care about the dog and want to "fix" the "problem", then they should take this advice seriously and take the next step.  They could also call the shelter/rescue where they got the dog and ask for assistance.  This may not me the norm, but our shelter has a behaviorist on staff (as in, someone who has post-grad degrees in animal behavior) and anyone can call her for a consultation. An acquaintance of mine adopted a "problem" dog and asked me for advice.  I simply told her that even though I've been working with GSDs I was not comfortable making judgments about her dog and I referred her to someone I trust who has been doing this sort of thing for years.  Now, their dog is a great dog and she is always thanking me for referring her to this other person.  I know that for me, trying to help them would have been over my head and I do not like to do hands-on help with anyone who's dog has a problem I don't have experience with or who is asking me about trainers and methods I don't have experience with. vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop RA CL1-F CL1-R TT HIC TDI CGC ("Kenya", GSD) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC ("Coke", All American) Alta-Tollhaus' Bono ("Nikon", GSD)

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• 03-25-2008 12:59 PM

  In reply to DPU

  Pomeranian <3 Joined on 01-03-2008 MASSACHUSETTS Posts 1,065 Points 545

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact DPU: I try and keep up with member's happening and do recall Pomeranian just being hired by Petco in mid-February for an administrative part time position.   Last I read, Pomeranian was just being trained for basic puppy obedience class.  In a one month period, how does one go from store clerk to behaviorist? The store lost their CEI when I started working there (he went on to become a Vet Tech) and no one wanted to volunteer to take over the role. So I said heck why not I'll do it; I own a dog, I love training my dog, why not learn to train dogs? The training was easy and only took one week plus a test & more observation hours. So far I love it and it's going great and I really enjoy coming up with fun lesson plans for the pet parents to practice at home. I agree that a lot of these dogs people are bringing in need a BEHAVIORIST not obedience training. And I try explaining that to them but they are convinced that if they just take their dog somewhere someone will magically "fix" the dog. I really hope for these dogs sake... the owners will step up to the plate because I really feel for these dogs.

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• 03-25-2008 1:06 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  Pomeranian <3 Joined on 01-03-2008 MASSACHUSETTS Posts 1,065 Points 545

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact Liesje: I would refer them to a local behaviorist, which is what Cesar's disclaimer does on the TV show.  If they care about the dog and want to "fix" the "problem", then they should take this advice seriously and take the next step.  They could also call the shelter/rescue where they got the dog and ask for assistance.  This may not me the norm, but our shelter has a behaviorist on staff (as in, someone who has post-grad degrees in animal behavior) and anyone can call her for a consultation. What level do you feel someone should be advised to a behaviorist? There are basic bad behaviors I can handle: barking, chewing, jumping, over excitement, etc... But when dogs are frantic to the point they never settle or nip at you, I feel that is a red flag and I need to address it to the owner. Especially if they are in a CLASS because their dog's need for more attention will drive away from the other pet parents. I think for cases like the JRT I met plus the Golden I met those dogs need serious serious help... but more so the OWNERS need a wake up call! I have their contact information and if I call around and find a behaviorist I think I'm going to request they go see them. I just don't want to offend anyone because people get all defensive over whether or not they have a "problem dog". I try to tell them its a matter of behavior issues verses obedience and that's not what we are covering in this specific class. And I've told people Cesar may be a great TV to watch for entertainment but to never practice is ways without seeing a professional. And then they come back with "well aren't you a professional? why can't you just fix the problem" I don't think they understand and I'm trying so hard to explain it... Being new and having this happen is deff intimidating... I have a lot of respect for those interacting with behavior problems like this for years.

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• 03-25-2008 1:11 PM

  In reply to Pomeranian <3

  rwbeagles Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW, TX Posts 14,914 Points 2,035

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact Does your workplace not vet the clients, and assign those with serious or more complicated issues to senior staff? That'd be my first thing...assessing the classes to trainers qualified and confident about dealing with the issues. If there's a senior trainer...and a new one, then the new one should have a class that is a bit easier until they get their sea legs. The entire class would be more efffective, seems like? I know with human students, if a teacher is spending half the class with one problem student or two...the rest of the class misses out on their due time? The proper thing is to conference after hours and come up with a plan up to and including one on one instruction or disciplinary action to keep the class as a whole on track. Gina H. dog.community Moderator "Carne Asada, is not a crime."

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• 03-25-2008 1:18 PM

  In reply to rwbeagles

  Pomeranian <3 Joined on 01-03-2008 MASSACHUSETTS Posts 1,065 Points 545

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact rwbeagles: If there's a senior trainer...and a new one, then the new one should have a class that is a bit easier until they get their sea legs. The entire class would be more efffective, seems like? Totally agree only one problem... I'm the only trainer! I finished my CEI training... now I'm doing Team Lead training with the GM and we want to hire one more trainer which would then make *me* the senior trainer! ahhh! Ever been in a situation where you get way too much responsability at once? Especially when it's my SECOND job... not my primary job. We do have Zone CEIs and "mentor" CEIs but the girl I enjoy is far away and busy with her own clients. The two closest to me my GM doesn't even like and doesn't want me working with them "bad influences" she says. Corp. thinks I'm doing great! Which makes me feel good but I feel so lost when I've got Behavior Issue dogs coming to my classes from referrals that I didn't sign up... I might speak to the GM and say that don't have other people refer pet parents to the classes. I'd rather observe the dog and suggestion a class, private session, or else where... does that make sense??? I'll discuss that with them on Thursday

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• 03-25-2008 1:20 PM

  In reply to Pomeranian <3

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts 7,110 Points 850

  Re: Incorporating Cesar CORRECTLY Reply Contact Pomeranian <3: Liesje: I would refer them to a local behaviorist, which is what Cesar's disclaimer does on the TV show.  If they care about the dog and want to "fix" the "problem", then they should take this advice seriously and take the next step.  They could also call the shelter/rescue where they got the dog and ask for assistance.  This may not me the norm, but our shelter has a behaviorist on staff (as in, someone who has post-grad degrees in animal behavior) and anyone can call her for a consultation. What level do you feel someone should be advised to a behaviorist? There are basic bad behaviors I can handle: barking, chewing, jumping, over excitement, etc... But when dogs are frantic to the point they never settle or nip at you, I feel that is a red flag and I need to address it to the owner. Especially if they are in a CLASS because their dog's need for more attention will drive away from the other pet parents.   I'm not sure, I would have to see the dog.  A behaviorist could do an evaluation and say whether or not there is a problem. I think MOST of the time, it's not that they have a bad behavioral problem, but they are pushed to hard too quickly.  Petco can be distracting even for my performance dog who has passed through every level of obedience the club offers and competes in obedience.  I can't imagine a puppy or an adolescent dog from a shelter ever being able to settle in that environment AND learn.  In someone else's thread, another member made the point that you don't really teach the dog DURING class, the trainer trains you how to teach, and you do it all on your own as homework.  I personally would not expect to see much from puppies or basic level dogs during the classes.  Not settling and/or nipping can be a behavioral problem, but it can also be a puppy going through a fear stage that is being exposed to WAY too much distraction and under pressure to learn and perform commands that are brand new.  The most helpful obedience class I ever took was one I went to...without a dog!  vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop RA CL1-F CL1-R TT HIC TDI CGC ("Kenya", GSD) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC ("Coke", All American) Alta-Tollhaus' Bono ("Nikon", GSD)

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