What's Your One Training Dilemma?

• 02-23-2008 3:44 PM

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 10,137 Points 735

  What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact  Is there anything that, no matter how you have tried, you haven't been able to teach your dog to do (or not do)? Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 02-23-2008 4:34 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,431 Points 25

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact YES!!!  Loud noisy children cause Woobie to FREAK THE *(&^ OUT!  I don't believe there's a single thing on the planet that could keep him from running for the hills and never returning if he had the opportunity when the evil small creatures are around.  Even after living here for a year and nearly daily counter-conditioning and training, if the neighbor's kids are outside making noise, he will fling himself against the sliding glass door with enough force to hurt himself.  He's made some small strides with quiet, calm, respectful children of about 9 y.o. and up, but the little squeaky squealy ones strike terror in his soul.  I'm starting to work thru the exercises in Click to Calm and will work on him until the day he dies on this, but wow, it is tough and frustrating when a fear is so intense and ingrained.   Worst part about it too is that he's awful cute and the kids see him, aren't afraid at all and scream "PUPPY!!!!" while charging him with outstretched hands.  I stop them, of course, and now with Indie, I can redirect (he loves them) but I sometimes wish he was scarier looking so he wouldn't be so appealing to them.  Some of their parents view the pinch collar we usually walk with to be a deterrent and that helps, sometimes.    30 lbs. by Christmas, down 4 lbs., 26 to go!!!

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• 02-23-2008 4:56 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  BlackLabbie Joined on 01-28-2008 South of Boston Posts 1,131 Points 175

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact "Leave it" is very hard for Apollo. He knows it, but selectively- if that makes sense. If it's a stinky, dead, animal that he found in the woods, I will say "leave it" firmly. He'll usally stand there looking at me, tail wagging like crazy, and look back at the dead animal. And if I make a motion toward him he'll roll face first into the dead animal as fast as he can. Now, if I  turn my back on him he'll run as fast as he can in front of me and sit. So, that's what we do...I say "leave it" and turn, and he'll leave it, if I don't turn he'll roll in it. But I can't just say "leave it" and he will. I think it's like a game to him! But, I have to add....if I put a treat in front of him and say "leave it" he will, not problem. Then I say "Ok!" and he'll eat it right up. If hunger is not the problem, then eating is not the solution. ~Author Unknown

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• 03-01-2008 3:15 PM

  In reply to BlackLabbie

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,498 Points 10

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact Here's a thought; the word "leave it" is a predictor, rather than a signal for him to actually DO something.  It's a consistent pre-cursor of one of two things - either you will make for him and physically stop him getting into it, or take it off him or whatever it is you usually do when you go towards him (ie. no reward, unless he takes the thing himself).  OR you will turn away, which means you have some great reward, in which case the best reward is to "leave it" and come to you.  Not a game, as such.... more that the cue AND your turning away has become the signal for a leave it.  It's a behaviour chain that's been reinforced..... when you say Leave it and move towards him, he goes for it anyway and is reinforced that way.  When you say it and turn away, he comes to you for the reward and gets rewarded that way.  I'll bet you my granny that you did loads of hard work training him with really high end reinforcement for "leave it", but sometimes you got caught out with nothing to reward him with, so decided to go and physically stop him. Put a treat in front of him and say leave it.  After a short stretch, take the treat away.  I'll bet you my granddad (I already betted my gran) that after a few reps of this his "leave it" is no longer solid.  My training dilemma?  A better recall.  I ALWAYS want a better recall.  Everything else can go whistle as far as I am concerned.  "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 03-01-2008 4:31 PM

  In reply to Chuffy

  Jewlieee Joined on 03-23-2007 MI Posts 5,727 Points 4,170	Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact To not jump on people - but I have to admit that I give mixed signals on this one
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• 03-01-2008 4:45 PM

  In reply to Jewlieee

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts 7,097 Points 850

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact Coke - being off lead outside.  Just the general attention and obedience he needs before he will be trusted.  Right now if he's let off for half a second he takes off and runs two miles before he stops to look back. Kenya - being able to perform without thinking everyone's out to get her.  If anyone moves within a 4-5' radius of where we are training, she will startle, stop, and try to hide behind me.  She is actually better in the competition ring b/c we have the whole ring to ourselves, whereas in class there might be 6 other dogs and handlers all up and practicing at the same time.  Luckily, she only reacts this way towards certain people so it's really not a big deal, but if someone happens to be watching class and she is scared of that person, we accomplish nothing.  vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop RA CL1-F CL1-R TT HIC TDI CGC (GSD) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC (All American) Alta-Tollhaus' Bono (GSD)

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• 03-02-2008 7:14 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  Pwca Joined on 09-10-2006 Dallas, Texas Posts 1,327 Points 310

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact Liesje- read Control Unleashed- all about counterconditioning- VERY applicable for Kenya. :) I've got different issues with all three dogs. :P  Mal - BARKING. argh, the barking. I've actually resorted (after nearly 18 months of other strategies) to trying a citronella collar as a last resort to washing him out of SD training. We're on day 5 and I'm seeing good results, so... hopefully we've finally got this handled.....  Lizzie - her nails. She is EVIL about her nails. I thought corgis could be bad, butdear lord.... She's going to the vet on tuesday and I'm going to let THEM traumatize her. I've been doing slow desensitization work for over a month with tiny, tiny incriments and am seeing almost no progress. Meanwhile, her claws are now TALONS. She may just go to the vet weekly for a while. I've never had a dog I couldn't desensitize ot either the dremel or the clippers before. Ugh.  Indy- proofing. His stays are great, and his onleash work is pretty darn decent. Unfortunately, he's very, very ringwise- and once that leash comes off and the schedule of reinforcement goes down? He's off hunting for greener pastures.... (And before anyone says "well, that's what comes of training with treats/not using variable reinforcement"- Indy was my ONLY traditionally trained obedience dog, has been on variable reinforcement schedule with multiple reinforcers from the beginning, and is just... well, he's just a Cardi, apparently. :P I love the breed and I will always have *A* Cardi- but they can be a real challenge to train for obedience! (There is a reason they're very popular in agility and reasonably so in herding, yet you'll rarely see them in competitive obedience. :P They are Creative Souls.)

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• 03-13-2008 5:44 PM

  In reply to Jewlieee

  Xerxes Joined on 05-08-2006 Posts 5,622 Points 520	Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact Jewlieee: To not jump on people - but I have to admit that I give mixed signals on this one     That one is mine as well.  He only jumps on people he really, really likes, and then only for the excited greeting.  So that's like 5 people that he just won't stop for.
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• 03-19-2008 9:12 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  kpwlee Joined on 06-17-2006 North Carolina Posts 4,016 Points 380

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact  deer. The boy is mad about deer. Once he is focused on them getting him back is near impossible.  Tried making him sit, tried 'touch', tried treats, various distractions, being still, pressing on.  Nope. Two weeks ago we had 6 deer come flying at us from a wooded area, they got to about 20 ft and stopped.  Major stare down between he and deer.  Deer go back into the woods.  For about 20 minutes every time I tried to move he lunged to chase.  The rest of our walk he was on fire and distracted. Now every time we pass that spot he is looking for them.  I'm sure its an area they graze so he will scent them too. Deer.  "I think Karen should get a BC next time because she deserves a more mellow laid back dog! Or a Maremma because she needs a more clingy, biddable, easily trained dog." Brookcove 2008

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• 03-19-2008 9:25 PM

  In reply to kpwlee

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts 7,097 Points 850	Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact Mmm, deer!  Kenya found one once but THANK GOD she froze b/c it surprised her so much! vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop RA CL1-F CL1-R TT HIC TDI CGC (GSD) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC (All American) Alta-Tollhaus' Bono (GSD)
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• 03-19-2008 9:25 PM

  In reply to kpwlee

  corgipower Joined on 09-10-2007 new jersey Posts 780 Points 0	Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact Morgan never was able to learn a quiet command, Tyr hasn't learned to unglue his nose from the corgis bums, and Ares has yet to learn how to make a pot of coffee! Proud member of the tenth place CISRA 2008 team!! tweleve.org corgipower.com My Dog Votes!
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• 03-19-2008 10:09 PM

  In reply to corgipower

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 10,137 Points 735

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact corgipower: Morgan never was able to learn a quiet command, Tyr hasn't learned to unglue his nose from the corgis bums, and Ares has yet to learn how to make a pot of coffee!   Yeah, that coffee thing has escaped everyone here, too...   Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 03-19-2008 10:17 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  erica1989 Joined on 02-21-2007 Clearwater, Florida Posts 2,715 Points 260

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact Lay down. He used to do it - then I taught him shake - and lay down went right out the window! He does know GO lay down - he runs to his bed. And I would love to do aglity with Casey... but..... he is afraid of all the equipment. Other than those (and some other cutesy tricks I would love have him learn - but they aren't necesities) he's got a soild recall, excellent sit and fabulous shake, he'll even do 'other paw' when he's in a good mood.

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• 03-19-2008 10:59 PM

  In reply to kpwlee

  sl2crmeg Joined on 10-08-2006 New Smyrna Beach, FL Posts 2,517 Points 345

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact kpwlee:  deer. The boy is mad about deer. Once he is focused on them getting him back is near impossible.  Tried making him sit, tried 'touch', tried treats, various distractions, being still, pressing on.  Nope. Two weeks ago we had 6 deer come flying at us from a wooded area, they got to about 20 ft and stopped.  Major stare down between he and deer.  Deer go back into the woods.  For about 20 minutes every time I tried to move he lunged to chase.  The rest of our walk he was on fire and distracted. Now every time we pass that spot he is looking for them.  I'm sure its an area they graze so he will scent them too. Deer.   Just replace 'deer' with squirrl. AND someone in our subdivision feeds the darn things!

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• 03-20-2008 7:09 AM

  In reply to sl2crmeg

  kpwlee Joined on 06-17-2006 North Carolina Posts 4,016 Points 380

  Re: What's Your One Training Dilemma? Reply Contact  LOL he was like that with squirrels too but we could work on that because they are all over the place here.  Basically I let him go into the stalk/point and then praised him told him 'I see it' and 'enough'.  With practice it is now part of our walk except he rarely even does the point/stalk fully.  I can see that he locks on I say "I see it" and he happily moves on.  Some version of that might help you.  Its like a command and acknowledgment that he's done well.  Of course in our case if, as we believe, there is gsp in him its part of his instinct. He also has the job in the yard of chasing them off the bird feeders - this seems to appease his squirrel needs. Now if some deer would just let us practice with them we may be able to move on   "I think Karen should get a BC next time because she deserves a more mellow laid back dog! Or a Maremma because she needs a more clingy, biddable, easily trained dog." Brookcove 2008

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