Interesting article on Menadione

    • Gold Top Dog

    Interesting article on Menadione

    BY Greg Aldrich, PhD
    BY Greg Aldrich, PhD
    There are no reports of nutritional toxicity of any vitamin K sources in dogs or cats readily available in the literature

    Vitamin K is one of those nutrients that we learn of early in nutrition training as an essential fat soluble vitamin that is important in clotting. Beyond that, we seldom discuss it. Recently, however, there has been a concerted effort by a few "pet enthusiasts" to spook petfood manufacturers and well-meaning pet owners into the notion that vitamin K supplementation in the diet, specifically with vitamin K3 (menadione), is unnecessary and potentially toxic to pets. Determining whether they have a valid point warrants a bit of investigation.

    Necessity

    Vitamin K is known principally for its role in blood clotting, but has also been reported to be involved with osteocalcin and bone formation, along with a number of other biomedical functions. By definition, vitamin K is any of several compounds that are based on 2-methyl-1,4-napthoquinone (also known as menadione) that express anti-hemorrhagic properties (Suttie, 2007). The amount of vitamin K recommended for dogs and cats is approximately 1 part per million of the diet (NRC, 2006).

    Vitamin K can be supplied to the animal from a combination of sources: vitamins K1, K2 and K3. Vitamin K1, also known as phylloquionone, is found in green leafy vegetables and vegetable oils. Vitamin K2 is produced by gut bacteria and vitamin K3 is chemically synthesized. Vitamins K1 and K2 are "active" upon absorption. However, vitamin K3 must be "alkylated" by gut bacteria or tissue enzymes to become active. This activation involves the addition of isoprenoid side chains, and in some literature this activated form is called menaquinone or designated as MK-4.

    While it is true that most of the dietary vitamin K can be provided by vitamin K1 from green leafy plants and vegetable oils, or through stable gut fermentation (supplying vitamin K2), the variability in these sources, effects from processing and gut health of the animal make them less than 100% reliable. Further, not every petfood company considers green leafy vegetables or vegetable oils to be an essential part of a dog or cat diet. So, many petfood companies choose to supplement with a commercial source. These commercial sources of vitamin K3 are produced through industrial synthetic chemistry. The AAFCO Official Publication (2007) lists only vitamin K3 sources as approved for use. They include menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (MDPB), menadione nicotinamide bisulfite (MNBS) and menadione sodium bisulfite complex (MSBC).

    Supplementation with vitamin K3 doesn't appear to be a smoking gun.

    None of these are explicitly identified for use in petfoods, but no objections have been forthcoming if MSBC is the vitamin K3 source of choice. No forms of vitamin K1 or K2 are approved as feed ingredients, although there is an understanding that no regulatory action will be taken for pre-market approved use of vitamin K1. So, even if a petfood company gave in to these unfounded concerns over vitamin K3, they don't really have any other option besides vitamin K3 to use as the supplement unless they choose to completely remove it from the formula altogether.

    Toxicity

    As for the toxicity concerns, there are no reports of nutritional toxicity of any vitamin K sources in dogs or cats readily available in the literature, and certainly no descriptions that could be found showing vitamin K3 (menadione) was harmful to dogs, cats or other domestic animals. The recent Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats (NRC, 2006) and the Vitamin Tolerances of Animals (1987) texts are authoritative reviews on the topic, and they state that toxicity of menadione by nutritional routes is in excess of 1,000 times the requirement. Further, vitamin K3 has been fed to poultry, swine and companion animals for more than 50 years without incident. So, nutritional supplementation with vitamin K3 doesn't appear to be a smoking gun.

    However, the pharmacological or medical use of vitamin K to combat acute ingestion of anti-clotting agents (e.g., warfarin or coumarin) and bleeding disorders of neonates (human) associated with vitamin K deficiencies is a different story. Under these circumstances and dosages, vitamin K1 (phylloquinone) is the preferred intravenous (parenteral) source of vitamin K. Further, it has been demonstrated that intravenous administration of vitamin K3 at dosages of 100 mg/kg (which is around 100 times the nutritional requirement) may be toxic. One can speculate that this could be due to the lack of "alkylation" that occurs when vitamin K3 is administered through a route other than via the gut.

    Necessary and nontoxic

    While small amounts of vitamin K are required in the diet and might be provided by whole ingredients or healthy gut fermentation, the uncertainty of these sources leads many petfood companies to supplement with commercial vitamin K3 (menadione). To provide this wee bit of "insurance" in the petfood, there is only one form availablethe water soluble, stabilized menadione (MSBC). Judicious use of nutritional vitamin K3 is clearly not toxic, so this notion that vitamin K3 as an ingredient in petfoods should not be used is unfounded and should be reversed. Further, it is hoped that through education and communication, consumers can be made aware that not all that is printed on enthusiasts' websites is correct. Also, radical nutrition positions should be compared and contrasted with current and comprehensive research literature and not just a few, potentially unrelated, experiments.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    very interesting

    • Gold Top Dog

    Wink

     Permission to cross-post?
     

    • Puppy

    Yes, it is interesting, but I wonder whether Dr. Aldrich could have written his article without the following inflammatory words and phrases:

    ""pet enthusiasts", spook, smoking gun (used twice), notion, radical nutrition positions"

    I would put more credence in what he said if he weren't being snide.


    Cheryl 

    • Gold Top Dog

    As much as the Dog Food Project site is great and offers good advise I never understood the "Menadione" witch hunt.

    Unless it was to promote her site and stand apart from others.

    Remember any substance can be toxic in wrong doses. A forum poster to another site calls himself  3dognite.He uses this quote from Paracelsus (1493-1541)

     "All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy."

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    gretchensmom

    Yes, it is interesting, but I wonder whether Dr. Aldrich could have written his article without the following inflammatory words and phrases:

    ""pet enthusiasts", spook, smoking gun (used twice), notion, radical nutrition positions"

    I would put more credence in what he said if he weren't being snide.


         Agreed that was a bit brash of him, and very unnecessarily so :(  You catch more flies w/ honey than vinegar ...

        OTOH I'm glad to finally see an article of this sort, because so many people will go out of their way to discredit an excellent, well formulated diet becuase of this one vitamin used in minimal amounts. It's utterly ridiculous when people with no formal background in nutrition or animal science refuse to try a food and knock others who do because of Menadione. Personally, to me it's always been just another "corn & by products are bad" pitch from competitive "holistic" companies. The sad thing is when other holistic companies will cave in to popular demand and disregard what's best for the dogs by removing such vitamins from their premix.

    • Gold Top Dog
    fish n dog

    As much as the Dog Food Project site is great and offers good advise I never understood the "Menadione" witch hunt.

    Unless it was to promote her site and stand apart from others.

    I believe it's because of her international schooling and access to the research that led to banning of menadione in other countries.

    • Gold Top Dog

    sooner
    I believe it's because of her international schooling and access to the research that led to banning of menadione in other countries.

     

     

    There are a few things banned overseas that I think were banned for ridiculous reasons.  And to my knowledge, the only thing menadione was "banned" for overseas was its use in large amounts in daily vitamin supplements.  The main thing that bothers me about the Dog Food Project's take on menadione is the fact that it is all based on one inconclusive source, that was written in German and translated by the site owner....

    The fact is that there isn't a definitive research study done on menadione given to dogs and cats at trace amounts over long periods of time.  Just the simple "when given direct injections of this in VERY concentrated amounts, it can cause X problems."  Well if you want to argue that statement, vitamin A is just as toxic (if not more) when taken in overdose. 

    That's just my opinion....it certainly is an issue open for debate Smile
     

    • Gold Top Dog

    This is interesting.  I have never worried about it in my dogs' food.  Have always thought that if it was THAT BAD, it wouldn't be used at all.   I have to many other things to worry about that could cause harm to my dogs.

    • Gold Top Dog
    papillon806
    The main thing that bothers me about the Dog Food Project's take on menadione is the fact that it is all based on one inconclusive source, that was written in German and translated by the site owner....

    There are five sources listed in the "Why is it bad" section, more in "Comments from various sources", and another in the "Conclusion". Which is the one inconclusive one?

    I understand your argument about amounts, but since there isn't a definitive research study done on menadione given to dogs and cats at trace amounts over long periods of time, and it's something that's relatively easy to avoid, I'm not going to risk it. JMO though :-)

    • Gold Top Dog

    I think there is no better evidence or long term study than the fact that it has been used in all sorts of animal feeds for over 50 years, probably tens of millions of animals have injested it for  over half a century without any reported cases of toxicity, the signs of menadione toxicity are well documented and very clear, there is no great mystery about what happens from menadione toxicity, if these animals were having problems, I would think one vet in 50 some years would have noticed a problem.   During the  melamine poisoning, in which case there was a true toxin in the foods, vet clinics across the country were buzzing because they knew something was amiss and animals were dying from unatural causes. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Isn't the only reason it is added is because the cooking process destroys any Vit K that's found in the foods before cooking?

    So if I understand the logic the Pet Food Project uses then no Vitamins should be added to any kibble.... And the dog owner would be left to supplement on their own...   but the only artificial Vitamin she has a problem with is Menadione.

    Some of the oldest living dogs in this world lived to ripe old ages being fed Purina products that contained Menadione.

    Now can anyone help me on this..

    Innova Adult n/a states that it contains

    Vitamin K  928 ug/kg

    Evo Red Meat n/a states that it contains

    Vitamin K  1ug/kg

    Why the big disparity from the same company ? And which is better ? Higher or lower ?

    link to Vit K article

    http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/77/1/28.pdf

     

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    abbysdad

    I think there is no better evidence or long term study than the fact that it has been used in all sorts of animal feeds for over 50 years, probably tens of millions of animals have injested it for  over half a century without any reported cases of toxicity, the signs of menadione toxicity are well documented and very clear, there is no great mystery about what happens from menadione toxicity, if these animals were having problems, I would think one vet in 50 some years would have noticed a problem.   During the  melamine poisoning, in which case there was a true toxin in the foods, vet clinics across the country were buzzing because they knew something was amiss and animals were dying from unatural causes. 

    Dogs are diagnosed with idiosyncratic ailments by the hundreds every day. The symptoms of menadione toxicity are not so specific and acute that menadione could be ruled out as a source. Menadione is known to weaken the immune system and that in itself could lead to any number of disorders.

    I can't say that long term ingestion of menadione is harmful to dogs, and you can't say that it isn't... because it simply has not been studied in controlled circumstances.

    fish n dog, most of your concerns are addressed in the Dog Food Project article on menadione. The "Dog Discussions Forum" link on the upper left hand side of the page may be helpful for any other questions that should be addressed to the author.

    • Gold Top Dog

    sooner
    Menadione is known to weaken the immune system and that in itself could lead to any number of disorders

     

    Could you site the study where menadione given in approved dosages to dogs in there feed, over an extended period of time has shown to weaken there immune system.

    • Gold Top Dog
    abbysdad

    Could you site the study where menadione given in approved dosages to dogs in there feed, over an extended period of time has shown to weaken there immune system.

    No I can't, because like I said in my last post - it has not been studied. It can't be proven either way. Long term effects on dogs have not been studied. That's been made very clear on both sides of the argument.

    The reference to the conclusion that it weakens the immune system is cited on the Dog Food Project page.