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Possible UTI? (updated)

Last post 12-16-2007 7:24 PM by whtsthfrequency. 26 replies.
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  • 12-10-2007 3:00 PM

    • jenn52
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    Possible UTI? (updated)

    Should I get Rory checked for a UTI?  I don’t know if she has one or not but I’ve often wondered and I thought if I just had to bring in a urine sample, they could test it and no harm no foul.  I called the vet this morning and they take a sterile sample with a needle through her abdomen, so I don’t know if it’s worth having her checked if I’m not sure if she has one or not.  The things that make me is wonder is that she licks there quite a bit.  Not like every second, but probably several times a day.  She occasionally squats but doesn’t pee.  Again, not all the time, but now and then.  And then the past two days she’s been peeing in the house.  Yesterday she peed twice and I stopped her attempting a third.  Usually we don’t have more than one accident a week.  Am I just being overreactive?  What should I do?  Is there something natural I could give her to help to avoid the vet?
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  • 12-10-2007 3:26 PM In reply to jenn52

    • erica1989
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    Re: Possible UTI?

    I don't think it could ever hurt to check for one. You might also want to make sure her anal glands don't need to be expressed.

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  • 12-10-2007 4:05 PM In reply to jenn52

    Re: Possible UTI?

    jenn52:
    Should I get Rory checked for a UTI? 

    Yes!  She is showing the classic signs.

    Most vets will let you bring in a sample to be checked.  I doubt they would insist on a needle draw.

    Wipe her off with a cleansing cloth or a wet towel before she goes out.  Put a sterile container under her to catch some urine.  Get it to the vet ASAP.  Put it in a cooler with some ice for the trip.

    You would use a disposable plastic container with a top to catch the urine.

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  • 12-10-2007 4:09 PM In reply to erica1989

    Re: Possible UTI?

    I think she definitely needs to see a vet HOWEVER, I wish they wouldn't rush right straight to a sterile culture -- that's a bit invasive for a first try.  The other thing is, most vets I know EVEN IF they feel a sterile culture is defniitely warranted, will often use a catheter FIRST simply because with an aspirate of the bladder there is always the potential that they can nick something with the needle and wind up with a bit of blood IN the aspirate which can look like it's IN the urine. 

    Now in a situation where a vet is pretty sure there IS a problem and they want to do a culture and sensitivity then they will for sure do a sterile draw (either an aspirate like that or a catheter) -- but I've never heard of doing an aspirate for just an owner requested check.

    Now maybe there is a reason, but it would be a far more expensive test than a caught sample.  This vet may have reasons (sometimes people try to bring n a caught sample that's been sitting around for HOURS un-refrigerated and then they're annoyed that the vet says it's no good).  So I can understand why a vet might make a 'rule' like that but ... it wouldn't be something I'd want done.

    From what you are saying  

    However, everything you're saying DOES point to a UTI. Trying to pee and can't, accidents – I think you are absolutely right to get it checked.

    In order to do a sterile draw aspirate they will HAVE TO HAVE a full bladder – you can't go poking at the bladder unless it is FULL so if it were ME I'd ask them to try for a caught sample first ...and if she won't let them or if they think her skirts will contaminate it, then they'll have to go in the other way.

    Now Billy's had MANY sterile draws – both catheters and aspirates. And yes, he's had a couple of aspirates that showed blood when there really didn't seem to BE any and we re-tested by cathether and found no blood. I don't mean to scare you – but you don't want to treat for something that's not there. And you sound hesitant, so you know how freaked Rory will be.

    A UTI **defnitely** needs a vet – and you won't know until you see one.

     


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  • 12-10-2007 10:24 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • jenn52
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    Re: Possible UTI?

    i'm very upset because I took her in tonite and they said there is no way they can use a caught sample. It has to be aspirated or there is no way to do a culture. I let them do it but i could hear her crying and they tried more than once and they couldn't get anything. So now I'm more irritated. Then they asked I would leave her with them all day tomorrow so they could try until they got something. I was like, no, I don't want her being poked all day long. I told them I would bring her back in after work tomorrow and I won't let her pee first. But I'm still not happy. I spoke with my aunt, whose puppy has had two UTIs and her vet let her catch the sample both times. I'm annoyed because this was supposed to be the best vet and i don't know... Should I just call another vet? Problem is most vets arent open when i am home from work. I just want to cry!
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  • 12-10-2007 10:45 PM In reply to jenn52

    • jenn52
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    Re: Possible UTI?

    What are some probiotics i can give Rory in the event she has to take more antibiotics? She was just on flagyl for giardia and if she gets another antibiotic for a UTI, i'd like to restore some good bacteria. Is it possible to get a yeast infection from Flagyl???
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  • 12-11-2007 12:27 AM In reply to jenn52

    • erica1989
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    Re: Possible UTI?

    It's always possible, but I've never had a problem using flagyl.

    And you are correct, you CAN use a caught sample to test for a UTI, I'm not sure why your vet is not allowing that. I would say the direct draw should be the last resort! We ALWAYS use caught samples to do our urine testing. Is there a vet you can drop the sample off in the morning, and they can call you with the results? We have vets around here that have 'special' hours, they open early on some days and close late on other days. I would call around, or see if someone can take her for you.

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  • 12-11-2007 8:57 AM In reply to jenn52

    Re: Possible UTI?

    jenn52:
    What are some probiotics i can give Rory in the event she has to take more antibiotics?

    Give probiotics (good bacteria) 2-3 hours after the antibiotic.

    Some probiotics:

    • yogurt with live active cultures (culture = bacteria) and no artificial sweetners
    • Lactobacillus acidophilus - any pharmacy - cheapest is the freeze dried stuff (powder or capsules)
    • Enzymatic Therapy Acidophilus Pearls
    • NZYMES Fortified Bac-Pak Plus (link)
    • Ultra-Pet Total-Biotics (link)
    • Bertes Digestion Blend (link)
    • Bertes Ultra Probiotic Powder (link) (link)
    • Fastrack Canine Microbial Gel (link) (RevivalAnimal link) (discount store link)
    • Natren CanineDophilus (link)

    There are lots of other probiotic products.  Human products are fine.  The last six listed above are specifically designed for dogs.

    CAUTION:  If the antibiotic is sensitive to dairy, you may need to find a non-dairy probiotic, so ask your vet.  There is a dairy-free version of Natren Megadophilus (link).

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  • 12-11-2007 9:32 AM In reply to janet_rose

    • nataliem
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    Re: Possible UTI?

    My dog Martini has a UTI. She was going to the bathroom a lot, straining but having no results and had accidents in the house(on my bed).  Well after talking to somebody on this board I decided to go the natural way instead of antibiotics.  I'm treating Martini with PetAlive UTI-Free herbal medicine.  It's too soon to tell as we have only been using it for three days but I noticed that she is not going to the bathroom as much and she hasn't had one accident since!

     You can find it anywhere online, it's a bit pricey but much less than going to the vet and a lot better than giving her antibiotics.

    Here is the info from the website.

    PetAlive UTI-Free contains the following 100% natural ingredients:

    • Arctostaphylos uva ursi is a well known urinary antiseptic and excellent treatment for cystitis and all urinary tract problems. This herb contains the glycoside arbutin as the main active constituent. Hydroquinone derived from arbutin and methylarbutin is a powerful anti-bacterial agent and is thought to be responsible for uva ursi's ability to treat urinary tract infections.
    • Berberis vulgaris: This widely studied herb contains berberine as a main constituent. Berberine is a recognized antibacterial agent and has been shown to kill amoebae in test tube studies. It also prevents bacteria from attaching to cell walls, reduces inflammation and strengthens immune functioning, thereby warding off infection and acting as a preventative as well as a natural antibiotic. Berberis also helps to treat the symptoms of diarrhea, especially if related to E.Coli infection.
    • Cantharis C6 is prescribed homeopathically for a variety of conditions, including severe cystitis and the burning urine associated with bladder infections, as well as the inability to pass more than a few drops of urine at a time.
    • Staphysagria C6 is a proven homeopathic remedy also recommended for urogenital problems such as cystitis, as well as urine retention sometimes associated with prostate problems.
    • Lactose (inactive ingredient)

    Contains no gluten, artificial flavors, colors or preservatives.

    Dosage Instructions:
    Cats and small dogs: Large pinch of granules sprinkled into the mouth
    Small to medium dogs: Two pinches sprinkled into the mouth
    Medium to large dogs: 1/4 cap of granules sprinkled into the mouth

    Sprinkle on the back of the tongue and let dissolve.

    Acute Conditions: Administer every 30 minutes for up to 6 doses a day or until symptoms subside. Thereafter administer two to three times daily for at least 7 days more or for as long as is necessary.

    Chronic: Use (for animals with recurring UTI-infections): Two doses of PetAlive UTI-Free daily to maintain urinary tract health.

    How long until we see results?
    Symptoms should begin to clear within a few days and should be under control within 7 - 10 days.

    How long does one bottle last?
    One bottle of PetAlive UTI-Free will last 15 - 30 days depending on usage and size of your pet.

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  • 12-11-2007 10:53 PM In reply to nataliem

    Re: Possible UTI?

    Jenn I don't know your vet and I'm not badmouthing them ... but it would give me a great big "hmmmm" to have the vet require a draw.    And then to say "leave him all day tomorrow" ... unfortunately that sounds TO ME like a vet who is snagging every income opportunity they can find.  YES they can use a caught sample, and unless there is some really serious and specific reason, you don't NORMALLY do a culture and sensitivity unless you are having repeat UTIs and you think one antibiotic isn't doing it so what else will 'kill' this particular infection.

    In my ***opinion*** doing a needle draw to get a sample is kind of like putting you in the hospital to test your blood pressure.  yeah ... you could DO it but there are usually first steps that are gone thru BEFORE you graduate to such a painful and **expensive** procedure JUST to test of a common UTI.


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  • 12-11-2007 11:24 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • jenn52
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    Re: Possible UTI?

    Yeah, we went back this afternoon and they drew a sample. She came back to me crying. It broke my heart. I'll find out tomorrow about the urinalysis and a couple days for the culture. Was even more annoyed when they told me how much. Last nite was $42. Tonite was $170. I just about died. No idea how much meds might be *if* she even has one. Spoke with my aunt and the cost for her dogs UTI was $38 for the test. Big difference. I might switch to her vet, it's a little farther from me, but this kind of sucks. She is supposed to get spayed on the 21st and I don't know how much it is. I think I'll call tomorrow and see if we should just switch vets now. Or if nothing else, I'll spay her here and switch vets for whatever comes up next. And it's not really about the money either. I'd spend *almost* anything to take care of her, it's just the fact that I don't necessarily agree with the practices and the fact that wouldn't even try to work with me. I guess I don't get it because humans pee in cups for their tests too and that's good enough for us... Not that I want her to be sick, but I hope I didn't put her through the needle torture for nothing.
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  • 12-12-2007 12:11 AM In reply to jenn52

    Re: Possible UTI?

    will often use a catheter FIRST

     Whoa. A catheter placement is MUCH more painful than a simply cysto. Cystos look frightening, but it's actually a very quick procedure and no different than a shot, or a blood draw...it is just the "big long needle"that freak people out, and some dogs get worried because of the careful restraint and positioning that need to occur, so they overeact to the stick when it actually happens...

    I'm also a bit alarmed to hear about the number of clinics who don't require cysto camples (ie truly sterile) samples too look for bacterial infections....I guess those vets didn't pay attention in the Bacti labs/lectures.....I could understand it IF they were just doing a routine urine check and there was no reason to suspect a UTI...but dang it, you're coming in *specifically* for that! Sterile site all the way!

    The reason is, if you have a few colonies grow out on a free catch stream (because the sterile urine comes into contact with other areas of the urinary tract "coming out" which DO have a normal flora) then that is no big deal. You also cannot usually get a feel for if there is an overabundance of any certain type of pathogenic bacteria, because the normal flora bacteria will outcompete them on the plate.

     If you have a few colonies grow out on a properly collected cysto samples, that is big trouble and a DEFINITE uti. Also, only the pathogenic ones will grow out because they are the only ones there. TOTALLY different diagnoses for the same dog, but the issue is proper sample collection So I understand why they are asking for a cysto sample.

     

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  • 12-12-2007 7:47 PM In reply to whtsthfrequency

    Re: Possible UTI?

    A UTI really isn't rocket science.  Behavior tells you a LOT.  A lot of people just don't have the money to deal with a $170 vet visit for a UTI.  I have had MANY sterile draws done on Billy in the past 18 months ... but never ever as a first option.  After treating if we still see symptoms and blood doesn't indicate any other problems then yes ... but I've never seen a vet, when presented with a clear list of symptoms who insisted on a sterile draw FIRST. 

    Testing is for sure valuable, but there are times when you just plain have to prescribe something and see if it works.  I would be mad as all get out if I went to a vet and they demanded a sterile urine draw to send it for a culture and sensitivity (*that may take DAYS to come back*) meanwhile leaving my DOG IN PAIN with a urinary tract infection???  no way. 

    I've had many dogs who ran uti's often.  But it's just not hard to have a really good idea of what it is before you go to the vet.  now .. if a strip test doesn't show anything, or if the urine is super dilute and you have a puppy you may be concerned about kidney problems ... yeah, maybe.  Or other specific situations like that ... but to require a sterile draw when presented with logical symptoms -- that honestly strikes me as cruel.  They HURT.


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  • 12-12-2007 8:51 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • ottoluv
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    Re: Possible UTI?

    You actually do not wait to treat until the culture returns.  The utility of the sample is from being drawn in a sterile method PRIOR to starting antibiotcs.  If the cutlture comes back with a "bizzare bacteria" or one resistant to the antibiotic given then you can alter your treatment.  There is no use to cultures done after starting antibiotics or nonsterile cultures.   The standard of care for a first time UTI or in an immune suppressed patient would be doing a sterile cultures.  For a dog that gets recurrent UTI's it's probably fine just to treat and not do a cultures first.  But again, no one would ever do a culture and wait for the results before treating a dog with obvious discomfort or symptoms.  You loose your ability to gain this valuable information if you skip this step to diagnosis.



    Here I am stuck in the middle with you
    I practice societal sanctioned assault

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  • 12-13-2007 12:05 AM In reply to ottoluv

    • jenn52
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    Re: Possible UTI?

    Just thought i'd update. The urinalysis came back clean. Won't know about the culture results for a couple more days. Kinda annoyed, but whatcha gonna do? I'd rather have her healthy more than anything.
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