8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

• 07-25-2007 11:42 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  calliecritturs Joined on 09-10-2007 Central Florida Posts 10,865 Points 3,330

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact It's happened in a zillion other threads -- use of words like "arrogant" and twisting your view to imply that Dr. Dodd's research isn't available or ... oh I just LOVE the "snake oil salesman" comment.   Yep.  Baiting.  I don't know anything about her publication or about how that's put into effect.  I'm not going to comment on it because to try to 'defend' something that is raised simply as speculation is not something I'm going to do.    My ***experience*** is that her methodology and protocols work.  They've diagnosed low thyroid in more than one of MY own dogs, which had otherwise repeatedly been tested and 'reported' as 'within range'.  Supplementation resolved the problem.  Supplementation was necessary which wasn't indicated on the regular panel.  My regular vet has, in the past, simply given up on the 'regular thyroid panels' and sometimes simply TRIED supplementation with no better 'proof' than his suspicion that the regular thyroid panels were just not adequate.   I can report my **experience** in this thread.  I won't argue or be drawn into any sort of discussion about something I have no experience or knowledge to comment on.    This thread is about being helpful to someone with a dog having problems.  THAT is where this thread belongs.  Don't derail it into a discussion about whether or not you approve of Dr. Dodd's choice in how she handles her professional business.    Let's help the dogs.  That's the point here.  It's the ONLY reason I post here.  I have experience and information I wanted to help the original poster with.  If you have personal feelings about how someone should conduct their relationship with their vet fine.  That's your right.  However, I also have found it is helpful to suggest tests, etc. for a poster to ask about -- mostly because in my **personal experience** I have seen many vets wrong.    In my desire to help someone with their dog I will suggest either what I know from personal experience or what I have gleaned from research and medical opinion and medical fact I've been taught by the many, many vets I know and deal with.   Words that try to incite an emotional reaction (ohhh, "snake oil salesman" Billy -- wow -- that's a nifty button pusher!!) are simply trying to stir things up in a thread and I'm not going to respond emotionally.   I'm here to help people and their dogs.  I will spend hours and hours on the phone with people, emailing them, and upon occasion even sending something in the mail or copied research in the mail.    But I'm not going to waste precious time and energy "defending" Dr. Dodds nor my own extensive personal experience.  If you have a question on why she has made the business and professional decisions she has, I suggest you email her, or call Hemapet.  You'd probably be pretty amazed at how often she will pick up the phone to help someone with their dog -- even when she hasn't received dime one from them.  She may or may not choose to 'defend' her professional position, but I bet she'd explain it if asked nicely.    Billy, I suggest you don't bother with the 'snake oil' comment.  It probably won't get you anywhere positive.  But feel free to waste your time  if you want.  It might give you something to do.

  Post Points: 0

• 07-26-2007 1:03 AM

  In reply to kelly25369

  jjsmom06 Joined on 07-20-2006 Posts 5,203 Points 125

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact I am still a bit baffled and unsure even what to say to your last post Callie. There MUST be some serious history with this whole Doctor Dodds thing on idog, that I am not understanding, in order to induce such a response. I find most of your posts to be so "even keeled” and I sense some growing tension in this one.   I greatly apologize if my post asking for clarification upset you. Again, I MUST NOT BE understanding some history and debate with this vet or something as I have found the discussion on both sides of this very interesting and enlightening, and have been following it for days despite not posting since page 1.  I have not personally made any decision on any side regarding this vet. But from the discussion on this thread I have seen several sides of asking your vet for tests, and opinions on tests and I think that getting to look at it from different angles is ALWAYS important.   I don't think anyone on this board would question your commitment to help others Callie.. you have helped a great many idoggers, including myself and I am most grateful for it.  While I do understand your need to help the OP and you feel that the Dr. Dodds stuff is derailing it, I feel it has been helpful… at least to me. But perhaps others don't share my opinion.. and that is perfectly OK. I am comfortable with agreeing to disagree with other folks… Especially since we all just have the dogs best interest in mind.    I was going to suggest that in the future if you felt this way, that perhaps you ask if the "derailing posts” could be discussed in a new thread, but I am not sure I totally agree with that as I think much of it, is relevant to this discussion. I am not sure what the answer is.. in fact I am not sure what my point is with all this.   I guess I just felt the need to apologize if I upset you and to perhaps post a different perspective from an outside view about the opposing opinions on this thread.  Perhaps with the history that I am not aware of, you aren't capable of seeing things from my viewpoint, but since many folks reading this thread will be in the same boat I am (ie- with little knowledge and understanding of thyroid conditions), I feel I needed to post my opinion and that it is a valid one. The Ayn Rand Frequently Revolving Quote: "I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. "

  Post Points: 0

• 07-26-2007 2:53 AM

  In reply to kelly25369

  janet_rose Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW area, Texas Posts 3,941 Points 330

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact Dr. W. Jean Dodds' organization, Hemopet, is a private 501(c)(3) nonprofit charitable organization.  Among other things Hemopet is the first non-profit national animal blood bank.  http://www.hemopet.com    Dr. Dodds is one of the driving forces behind the Rabies Vaccination Challenge study.  The goal of this study is to determine the DOI (duration of immunity) of the rabies vaccine.   Amazon.com lists Dr. Dodds as the author or editor of 8 publications.  She is mentioned in an additional 24 publications.   American Museum of Veterinary Medicine - Noteworthy Veterinarians http://www.amvm.org/vets_w-jean-dodds.asp An internationally-recognized authority on blood diseases in animals, W. Jean Dodds, DVM established Hemopet, the first nonprofit blood bank for animals, in the mid-1980s. Through southern California-based Hemopet, Dodds - a grantee of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, and author of over 150 research publications – provides canine blood components and blood-bank supplies throughout North America, consults in clinical pathology, and lectures worldwide.   Dr. Dodds is one of two editors of Molecular Genetics, Gene Transfer, and Therapy, Volume 40 (Advances in Veterinary Medicine) www.amazon.com/Molecular-Genetics-Transfer-Advances-Veterinary/dp/0120392410 W. Jean Dodds received her D.V.M. in 1964 from the Ontario Veterinary College. From 1965 to 1986 she worked for the New York State Health Department in Albany, where she conducted comparative studies of animals with inherited and acquired bleeding diseases. She also was a member of many national and international committees on hematology, animal models of human disease, veterinary medicine, and laboratory animal science. Dodds was a grantee of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NIH) and has over 150 research publications. She was formerly President of the Scientist's Center for Animal Welfare; Chairman of the Committee of Veterinary Medical Sciences; and Vice-Chairman of the Institute of Laboratory Animal Resources, National Academy of Sciences. In 1974, Dodds was selected as Outstanding Woman Veterinarian of the Year by the AVMA, Denver, Colorado; in 1977, she received the Region I Award for Outstanding Service to the Veterinary Profession from the American Animal Hospital Association, Cherry Hill, New Jersey; Dodds received the Gaines Fido Award as Dogdom's Woman of the Year in 1978 and 1990; and the Award of Merit in 1978 in Recognition of Special Contributions to the Veterinary Profession from the American Hospital Association, Salt Lake City, Utah. In 1984 she was awarded the Centennial Medal from the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine.  Dodds moved to Southern California in 1986 to establish Hemopet, the first nonprofit national blood bank program for animals. In 1987 she was elected a distinguished Practitioner of the National Academy of Practice in Veterinary Medicine. Currently, Dodds is actively expanding Hemopet's full-service, nonprofit animal blood bank program, which provides canine blood components, blood bank supplies, and related services throughout North America. Dodds is a member of numerous professional societies and she consults in clinical pathology and lectures nationwide to veterinarians and dog fanciers on hematology, immunology, and blood banking.

  Filed under: Hemopet, Dr. W. Jean Dodds, Jean Dodds, Dr. Dodds Post Points: 0

• 07-26-2007 12:54 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  probe1957 Joined on 09-10-2007 Illinois Posts 3,251 Points 110

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact >>over 150 research publications<<   Yet, we can't find a single one.  Maybe I have done 86,000 research papers but, if I haven't submitted them for peer review, you know what all 86,000 of them amount to?  AN OPINION.   I admit to a high degree of ignorance here, but isn't how things like this are normally done is a doctor will do research, form a conclusion then submit all of that to his peers to see if they can duplicate his results and come to the same conclusion?  I am old and I don't remember this stuff so well. If you can't say something nice about someone, you're probably talking about Hillary Clinton. -- Jeff Foxworthy ~Billy

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• 07-26-2007 2:00 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  lena Joined on 09-10-2007 Ontario,Canada Posts 719 Points 0	RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact Billy [sm=no%20no%20smiley.gif][sm=no%20no%20smiley.gif][sm=no%20no%20smiley.gif]
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• 07-26-2007 2:36 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  DPU Joined on 09-19-2006 Indiana Posts 4,497 Points 365

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact Callie, I want to thank you for making me aware of MSU and their use of Dr. Dodds protocal.  As you know this year I have had a lot of medical situations with my dogs and each time members have recommended a closer look at the thyroid.  Because of the valuable information you provide, I am able to have a dialogue with my vet and discuss and understand options in diagnosising the problem and then the subsequent treatment.  All this medical stuff is complicated for the JQP dog owner and I ut my trust in my vet and knowledgeable people like you.   I tell my vet I will follow her recommendations but I also want to know her knowledge and thoughts of what concerns me and answer questions based on my own research and what I learn from forum members.  If I did not bring up MSU, my vet would not have told me that if she feels it is a thyroid issue she sends the sample to MSU for analysis.  If I did not bring up a geriatric workup I would not know that is what the vet did.  I am not sure what message Probe1957 is sending.  Does he have a different recourse for those vets that use MSU or Dr. Dodds directly and is he telling people like me to confront my vet with the comments he has made here.

  Post Points: 0

• 07-26-2007 9:47 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  calliecritturs Joined on 09-10-2007 Central Florida Posts 10,865 Points 3,330

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact Billy and Ottoluv -- I'm not Dr. Dodds, nor does anyone I know of HERE have her in their back pocket to ask.  I don't know why she's made the business decisions she's made.  Why don't you ASK HER.    Please get back on topic.  Please take your Dodds bashing elsewhere.  The OP hasn't been here in three days -- and I fear it's because this has given her more angst than she needs to deal with.   I have known of and used Dr. Dodds protocols based on the advice of not one, nor two but FOUR of my vets.  Two at the U of Florida, my holistic vet here in Orlando and my *regular* vet who now sends many patients to Michigan State.  Why?  Because of the protocols they use and the results they get.   This is a thread about a woman trying to get help for her dog.  Trying to find an answer where vets in the past were UNABLE to.  Let's help HER.    If you don't like, don't trust, don't whatever about Dr. Dodds -- ask her.  But it's pointless to publically denigrate her when none of us has information only Dr. Dodds would have.   However -- she's very well thought of, not only in the 'holistic' community but most definitely in the veterinary community -- particularly vet schools. So I'd suggest lashing out here into the void is a bit silly.    I find it interesting so many people have positive results and positive personal experience with her, but no one has come forward to say they've used her or Michigan State and found it detrimental.    Dr. DiNatale (my holistic vet) called Dr. Dodds the other day long distance and discussed Billy with her AT LENGTH (probably a half hour phone call).  Neither vet charged me.  Billy didn't even have his panels DONE by Dr. Dodds, but at MS.  Dr. Dodds suggested we do several small 'tests' (experiments -- as to when to give him his meds, whether to switch brands, etc.)  She was simply trying to help Dr. D work thru some puzzling blood results.  "Why would this do that ..."   I felt pretty fortunate to have someone that well-established and that much of an expert in dog endocrinology HELP me.  And yeah, I'm doing all that was suggested.   And Billy goes back to UF next week for about $800 worth of testing that his UF vet (the one who has worked on the IMHA) has asked me to get.    Did I ask for them?  No.  But I DID bring the concern to their attention.   My point is -- I don't question every word a vet says.  But when a problem presents itself I ask what we can do to resolve it.   And ... btw ... I think I'll mention here that we *caught* Billy's IMHA on a fluke blood panel that ***I ASKED FOR*** because he'd been demonstrating a little nausea and the vet couldn't find anything else wrong with him.  So I volunteered that we could do a complete CBC and blood workup on him and I'd be more than willing to pay for it.   It came back fine.  EXCEPT -- his hematacrit was *twenty*.  (normal is 35 - 49)   And he's still only one of two buffy coat cockers I know of who have *survived* IMHA.

  Post Points: 0

• 07-26-2007 10:02 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  ottoluv Joined on 11-27-2006 So Cal Posts 3,003 Points 525

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact Not agreeing with a clinician is not bashing Callie, you really shouldn't take anything personally nor should you suggest that a vet is bad/uninformed because he/she doesn't agree with another vet. Anyone who works in medicine/science understands that. In addition, you really shouldn't tell anyone what to post and where. If you don't want to discuss her protocols then don't bring them up. I don't need to stop discussing anything anymore then you need to. That is just plain rude IMO. Here I am stuck in the middle with you I practice societal sanctioned assault

  Post Points: 0

• 07-26-2007 10:24 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  calliecritturs Joined on 09-10-2007 Central Florida Posts 10,865 Points 3,330	RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact It's off topic.   If you want to discuss one particular vet's credentials do it in another thread.  Please. The above were simply suggestions because the OP was frustrated.
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• 07-26-2007 10:26 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  ottoluv Joined on 11-27-2006 So Cal Posts 3,003 Points 525	RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact Actually it appears that you are frustrated with the situation not the OP, 90% of what you posted is OT. Maybe worry about yourself first before trying to correct others? Here I am stuck in the middle with you I practice societal sanctioned assault
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• 07-26-2007 10:30 PM

  In reply to kelly25369

  calliecritturs Joined on 09-10-2007 Central Florida Posts 10,865 Points 3,330	RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact She hasn't been here since the 23rd. That's a shame if it's because she felt like she 'couldn't win'.  Maybe she's just busy.  I simply want to be sure a dog gets help.
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• 07-27-2007 12:04 AM

  In reply to kelly25369

  janet_rose Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW area, Texas Posts 3,941 Points 330

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact ottoluv: If you don't want to discuss her protocols then don't bring them up. I don't need to stop discussing anything anymore then you need to. That is just plain rude IMO. Rude is trying to discredit an internationally renowned vet based on her not publishing where and how you think she should.  Rude is stating your speculations as facts.  Rude is derailing a thread with a topic that should be on a separate thread - which I have started. http://forum.dog.com/asp/m.asp?m=410131  ottoluv: If her method is that great why doesn't she publish?  The simple answer is that she wants to charge for her service and if she publishes her standards then she can't charge.   This is an accusation based on nothing but speculation.  Besides Hemopet is a non-profit.    ottoluv: Anyone who finds a "break through" or new and better way of treating/diagnosing anything is morally obligated to share it with the community and she hasn't. What does that say about her?   To me it says that she isn't finished developing her protocol.  And if everyone were "morally obligated" to share new information we would not have medical patents. No, I don't expect Dr. Dodds to patent her protocol.  ottoluv: I will warn newbie's and lurkers to really evaluate any information you recieve (sic) on the net before making decisions regarding the care your pet is recieving (sic).   This I agree with.    ottoluv: Thyroid levels are thyroid levels period and the only difference with Dr. Dodd is her normal ranges which she WILL NOT PUBLISH so every vet in the country can use them.  "Has not" is very different than "will not", so this statement is again speculation.  ottoluv: Dr. Dodds does not have a single citation meaning she does not have any publications so she is nonexistent in the research world.   For a vet who is "non-existent in the research world", there are an awfully lot of vets who are familiar with Dr. Dodds' work.  Not presenting information to the vet world in the way in that you would like does not make her invisible to the research world, so again you are stating your speculation as fact.    ottoluv: Her published "research" is nothing more then her opinion which has not been substantiated with any evidence. You can follow the religion of anyone you want, just know that her claim as an expert is loose.  Dr. Dodds' opinions are substantiated by the vets who keep using her services because her advice works for their patients where the standard thyroid evaluation does not.  Again you are making a statement based on your speculation.  I will let the veterinary community decide who the vet experts are.  I am sure that "religion" had nothing to do with MSU deciding to use Dr. Dodds' protocols.

  Post Points: 0

• 07-27-2007 12:28 AM

  In reply to kelly25369

  jjsmom06 Joined on 07-20-2006 Posts 5,203 Points 125

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact ORIGINAL: calliecritturs She hasn't been here since the 23rd. That's a shame if it's because she felt like she 'couldn't win'.  Maybe she's just busy.  I simply want to be sure a dog gets help.  I don't see where this was evident that the OP ran off due to anything other than a busy schedule. And to suggest otherwise is, quite simply, “speculation”.   I don't want to get in a pissing match here which this has become.. My simple suggestion for the future is this: IN THE FUTURE,  if you sense that a NEW OP is getting frustrated with a confusing and overwhelming amount of information… then politely ask that the discussions be moved to a new thread.  Janet Rose started a new thread this evening… perhaps this thread and a suggestion to move the topic to a new location should have been made quite a few days ago before tempers started to flair and rational thought went out the window.   This is JUST my opinion from an outsider who is wanting to learn more about thyroid issues as I have a thyroid dog myself AND who has absolutely NO opinion on this Dr. Dodds.. whoever this person even is. SO take my opinion for whatever you think it is worth, which may not be much…lol.[]    And with that.. I bow out of this discussion all together… The Ayn Rand Frequently Revolving Quote: "I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. "

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• 07-27-2007 12:41 AM

  In reply to kelly25369

  agilebasenji Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 2,387 Points 200	RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact If you don't believe me about Dr. Dodd, check pubmed.... www.pubmed.org   Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but I got LOTS of hits when I put in "Dodds WJ" as an author.  Most appear to be dog-related, some thyroid, some vaccine related which I know are a couple of Dodds' pet projects, so to speak.
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• 07-27-2007 8:39 AM

  In reply to kelly25369

  probe1957 Joined on 09-10-2007 Illinois Posts 3,251 Points 110

  RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems????? Reply Contact Callie, frankly, I am a little baffled as to exactly what has your knickers in a knot.  I am not questioning Dr. Dodd's competence.  I am sure she is competent.  What I question is, why doesn't she prove it?   You often encourage people to challenge and question their vet.  Yet, when we challenge and question Dr. Dodd's protocol, you get upset.  Can we have a little consistency please?    Think about it.  Dr. Dodd was recommended to the OP by someone OVER THE INTERNET.  Now there's an ALWAYS reliable source that should NEVER be questioned.  [8|] If you can't say something nice about someone, you're probably talking about Hillary Clinton. -- Jeff Foxworthy ~Billy

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