Forum Post

8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

Last post 07-31-2007 11:50 PM by calliecritturs. 68 replies.
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  • 07-20-2007 3:57 PM In reply to kelly25369

    • cakana
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    • Cathy in Northern CA
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    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    Is it true what my doctor said that hypERthyroid is very rare in dogs?

     
    I'm not sure if it's considered "rare" but I think it's more common to see hypothyroidism.  Here's an excellent link to more information on symptoms and treatment:
    [linkhttp://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=461]http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=461[/link]
    ~ Cathy ~
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  • 07-23-2007 3:04 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    We are still waiting for the thyriod tests to come in, but the vet got back the results from the general lab work panal and everything was normal. So, that is good news. We should get the other results later this week.
     
    cakana, thank you so much for the link about Hyporthyroid. I will check it out right now.
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  • 07-23-2007 5:06 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    I agree with those that said if you want a test done on your dog and it is no way harmful the vet should do it.  he gets the money for doing it and you get the peace of mind of knowing one way or the other.  What I don't like is vets running tests that are not necessary or needed. My vet let one of his vets go because she was running tests that were not needed and he felt the dog owners were being taken advantage of.
     
    Now, as to running tests asked by people.  On one of my golden retriever forums one was concerened because her just turned one year old golden had thinning hair and it had turned coarse and she didn't seem to have the energy.  Several of us said have the thyroid checked.  Her vet wouldn't do because he said the dog was to young to have developed thyroid problems.  She asked a couple of times and was refused both. 
     
    I told the story of my youngest son who at 6 months had fever shoot up over 105, couldn't sit up (he was sitting alone at 5 months, standing before 6 months, walked at 8 months).  Our doc was out of town so we took him to the Children's Hospital emergency.  I told them he had been exposed to measles and they said he was to young to catch them.  They drew blood, did x-rays and then told us they wanted to test for menigitis and that stuck that huge needle in my baby's spine to draw fluid and i have never forgotten his screams  Everything was negative and they finally said he had a virus.  Two days later he was covered with red spots, our doc was back, we took Randy in and nealses were congirmed.
     
    She took her dog to another vet, he did the test and sure enough, tho rare, her dog did have low thyroid and is on thyroid meds.  Had she not taken her dog to another vet who would do the test, the dog could have had a miserable life for years.
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  • 07-23-2007 6:47 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    Kelly -- not to nag, but since your behaviorist's original comment was about the dog being 'bug-eyed' -- one of the things I would absolutely, positively, MAKE SURE AND CERTAIN you get done is having yor dog's blood pressure checked.
     
    Your vet likely doesn't HAVE a blood pressure cuff for a dog.  Most don't.  But high blood pressure in a dog is a silent killer.  Often you just plain won't get ANY outward sign of it other than something like being 'bulgy eyed' or bug-eyed or a bit restless. 
     
    PLEASE insist on it.
     
    Kelly, I lost a dog to hypertension.  He was in renal failure but I didn't even know to LOOK for this.  I didn't until it was too late.  His blood pressure shot up to 280.  That would be exactly as dangerous as yours or mine being that high.  By the time we found it it was actually too late to even give him medicine for it and I thot I *was* watching for him being restless, etc. 
     
    But it was too subtle. 
     
    PLEASE -- ask for it.  Your vet won't suggest it if he doesn't have a cuff.  YOu may have to call around and find a vet with one and often you can simply have your vet call the other and request it and they'll charge you like $20 to have the BP taken and that's all they'll do. 
     
    I'm sure you are probably rolling your eyes at me -- first I recommend a test done by someone other than the lab your vet normally uses (and probably your vet thinks it's silly) and now I recommend getting the dog's blood pressure taken.
     
    It's quite simply that I've lost dogs both ways.  Not knowing enough to demand a test that just wasn't suggested because it wasn't typically what my vet 'did'.  And not knowing that I was missing a dangerous signal -- one that my vet actually missed as well. 
     
    Vets aren't omniscient -- and often times they suggest what they have there TO test.  It's not that a vet is bad or negligent -- it's just sometimes as owners we have to think a little beyond that in order to protect our best friend.

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  • 07-23-2007 6:53 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    One more comment -- "is it rare for a dog to have hyPERthyroid"?
     
    it is for it to be the only thing wrong, and with no symptoms.  Hyperthyroid is one of those things that usually is a symptom of something ELSE being wrong.  It's usually related to age.
     
    A friend of mine had a dog who was hypothyroid all his life.  He'd been on soloxine literally 16 of his 17 years.  And as he got older they literally got complacent about having his blood tested (that's part and parcel of life with a thyroid dog).
     
    But as he aged what they didn't realize was that his body chemistry changed and he got less and less hyPOthyroid.  And in that particular case the extra soloxine they were giving him actually MADE him hyPER thyroid.  to the point where they very nearly lost him -- The symptoms of the thyroid imbalance lined right up with irritable bowel which he'd also been treated for long term.   They just plain didn't see it. 
     
    If you didn't know that the body chemistry had changed -- particularly with age -- it could simply be the way this animal aged. 
     
    So yeah, if there is no other 'thing' going on (not aging, not a pre-existing condition) it's rare.  But the problem is that the pre-existing condition can so easily have been one not severe enough to treat.

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  • 07-23-2007 11:05 PM In reply to kelly25369

    • ingemk
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-10-2007
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    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    Callie, I read in your posting that the tests will be read according to breed specifics. As a caretaker of a mixed breed ( mystery mutt), I'm wondering what  that'll mean to me if I ever have to get her tested......... Just a thought.
    How much difference will that make, not to be able to identify a breed?

    Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
    - John Wooden






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  • 07-24-2007 6:50 AM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    ottoluv:
    Thyroid levels are thyroid levels period and the only difference with Dr. Dodd is her normal ranges which she WILL NOT PUBLISH so every vet in the country can use them.

    "Will not" is pretty strong, since I doubt you know how widely she has distributed her ranges or what attempts she may have made to have them formally published.&nbsp; I do know that the Michigan State lab&nbsp;uses her protocols.&nbsp; I also know that if the appropriate text results are faxed to her, she will evaluate them regardless of whether or not she or Michigan State did the test.&nbsp;


    ottoluv:
    This do what I say because I am paying you attitude is a slippery slope and starts out with demands of inappropriate tests and ends up with demands for inappropriate treatments.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;


    I understand your feelings here.&nbsp; However, a vet/doctor can usually order an supposedly unneeded test (especially a blood test) without any harm to the patient (except the pocketbook).&nbsp; To me it is a BIG jump from that to expecting the vet/doctor to give a particular treatment upon demand.&nbsp; That gets into the area of "first do no harm".&nbsp;

    Filed under:
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  • 07-24-2007 7:04 AM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    ingemk:
    As a caretaker of a mixed breed ( mystery mutt), I'm wondering what that'll mean to me if I ever have to get her tested......... Just a thought.
    How much difference will that make, not to be able to identify a breed? 

    I am not Callie, but I'll take a stab at this.  Right now I think only Dr. Dodds or Michigan State could answer your question.  Terriers might be in one category with herding breeds in another, etc.  Maybe a breed's average weight figures into her tables.
     
    For a mixed breed I would be sure to send my sample directly to Dr. Dodds.  I would include the dog's weight/height, a breed guess, and a picture of the dog.  An email address so Dr. Dodds could ask questions might also be helpful.
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  • 07-24-2007 1:40 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    Both Dr. Dodds and Michigan State are incredibly helpful on the phone.  Last year when Billy was on SO many drugs,
    my vet was on the phone for a LONG time (like over an hour I think) with my vet (my regular vet) because he was on so many meds (including prednisone) that it took quite a while to sort out how the drugs might affect his testing.
    The difference is in the entire protocol – Michigan State follows Dr. Dodds protocols but she also set up their lab. But it#%92s obvious that they have continued to expand on those theories because I know last summer MS had done a huge study on the effects of steroids on thyroid testing. (not a small study, in fact)
    Ottoluv, I have no information regarding Dr. Dodd#%92s dissemination of information – and frankly, I#%92m not going to debate with you. I disagree with you incredibly strongly on all you say – and I have dealt with both holistic and regular vets for many, many years. In honesty, the reason I have ***HAD*** to learn so much about dog medicine is simply because I have had to dig out of so many problems inferior vets landed me in.
    One vet#%92s incompetence cost my cocker his ears and hearing simply because he never ... in two year#%92s time ... suggested a test called a "culture and senstivity" be done to find out what bacteria was in his ears and how to treat it. By the time I realized this guy was just plain a joke and switched vets, they suggested the test right off ... but it was too late and the damage was done to Muffin#%92s ears.
    That#%92s only ONE example.
    Please don#%92t try to mix human medicine and veterinary medicine. Vets are independent business people. They buy their own equipment. They aren#%92t underwritten by some large hospital in the vast majority of cases.
    They also realize that not every client who comes in the door can afford the same thing. Far far too often, I have had vets not suggest testing simply because they *assumed* I couldn#%92t pay for a test or wouldn#%92t want to. My vet has admitted to me on many occasions that I am unusual in the fact that he knows he can suggest a test and not make me feel ‘bad#%92 because of money matters.
    But I have known far far too may vets who simply don#%92t suggest extra testing because they are trying to be cautious of a client#%92s wallet – and on the other hand, I have seen many many vets suggest a ton of things routinely just because they are profitable. I had a vet#%92s wife say plainly to me one day that they had all their patients on a twice a year vax schedule because "at least that way we make some money".
    But I#%92m not going to debate with you the ‘whys#%92 of how Dr. Dodds conducts her business. But I think that it is far more than just her willingness to "publish". That would have to be an incredibly involved process and would involve a lot of liability on whether or not the entire protocols were properly followed. And I know the protocols are precise and involved.
    For example – the amount of time that has elapsed between when the dog ate (and WHAT they ate and how much calcium was in it) and when the dog took it#%92s medicine **and** how that affects the test and exactly what time it was done – all these things make an enormous difference in how the test results come out.
    I#%92ve seen this with my own eyes. In all the MANY MANY thyroid tests I#%92ve had run on various dogs over the years, no one has ever asked me when or what the dog ate prior to the test.
    However never before having Michigan State run the test have I had the incredible results that I#%92ve seen with their help and with Dr. Dodd#%92s help.
    But the fact that Dr. Dodds#%92 protocols are more specific – that ALONE makes me feel pretty confident that one of her reasons for being reluctant to release her material beyond her control is very likely that she doesn#%92t feel, thus far, it will be used accurately.
    Dr. Dodds certain isn#%92t in it for the money. I#%92ve seen how incredibly free she is with her time and helpfulness – and without her the idea of a national blood donor organization for dogs wouldn#%92t be a reality either.
    As far as a "mixed breed" -- that#%92s not usually a problem for her. She apparently has a formula of how to combine or ‘average#%92 those results – that#%92s MY guess. I will ask my vet the next time I see her.

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  • 07-24-2007 2:40 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    ORIGINAL: calliecritturs
    <snipped>But the fact that Dr. Dodds' protocols are more specific – that ALONE makes me feel pretty confident that one of her reasons for being reluctant to release her material beyond her control is very likely that she doesn't feel, thus far, it will be used accurately.

     
    I am sure Kelly will correct me here if I am wrong, but I think what she is looking for is INDEPENDENT verification that Dr. Dodd's method works and that is better or more accurate than the method used by every other vet in the world.  I believe one gets this type of verification by publishing their process and results to see if it can be duplicated by their professional peers.

    Dr. Dodds certain isn't in it for the money. <snipped>

     
    Perhaps not, but you have to admit, the (money) theory seems more plausible than the theory that Dr Dodds is so arrogant that she believes she is the only one in the world smart enough to follow her process exactly.
    If you can't say something nice about someone, you're probably talking about Hillary Clinton. -- Jeff Foxworthy

    ~Billy
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  • 07-24-2007 7:24 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    Callie, I read in your posting that the tests will be read according to breed specifics. As a caretaker of a mixed breed ( mystery mutt), I'm wondering what that'll mean to me if I ever have to get her tested......... Just a thought.
    How much difference will that make, not to be able to identify a breed?

     
      Inge; Jessie is a mixed breed but my veterinary dermatologist (who works at Purdue University Small Animal Hospital) sent her blood to MSU for thyroid testing. I asked her why since Jessie wasn't a pure breed and she said they run a more complete panel than other labs; the thyroid test could have been done at Purdue.
     
      Janice
    Janice
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  • 07-24-2007 7:38 PM In reply to kelly25369

    • ingemk
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-10-2007
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    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    Thanks for the answers[:)]. Now I have one more excuse to get the DNA test done whenever the blood test version is available.

    Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
    - John Wooden






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  • 07-25-2007 12:09 AM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    I think you'll find it has more to do with making sure that any dissemination of her work is done accurately ... this can all get unbelievably complex really quickly.  And Billy, I'm just plain not going to rise to your bait.  It's unnecessary to imply that Dr. Dodds is anything other than helpful -- I'm not going to allow this thread to become a vendetta.

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  • 07-25-2007 12:28 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    ORIGINAL: calliecritturs
    <snipped>And Billy, I'm just plain not going to rise to your bait. 

     
    Bait?  I asked a perfectly valid question.
     
    It's unnecessary to imply that Dr. Dodds is anything other than helpful -- I'm not going to allow this thread to become a vendetta.
     
     
    You're not going to ALLOW it?  [8|]
     
    I tend to agree with Kelly in that thyroid levels are thyroid levels, period.  Dr. Dodd may have done research that leads her to conclude otherwise, but her failure to publish that research, for peer review, makes her, in my mind, nothing more than a snake oil salesman.
     
    If you can't say something nice about someone, you're probably talking about Hillary Clinton. -- Jeff Foxworthy

    ~Billy
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  • 07-25-2007 12:45 PM In reply to kelly25369

    RE: 8 yo dog with Thyroid problems?????

    It's unnecessary to imply that Dr. Dodds is anything other than helpful -- I'm not going to allow this thread to become a vendetta.

     
     
     
    Callie- I have a lot of respect for you and have so much to thank you for with regards to you helping me with JJ#%92s allergy problems.  But I have to say I am totally baffled by the above comment?  Perhaps I am missing something but I have read this thread several times again and I don#%92t see anything here other than legitimate questions and concerns. I know NOTHING about Doctor Dodds, but I have learned a great deal on this thread from a lot of different angles. I don#%92t see how this is a “vendetta”….  I see this as perhaps a difference of opinion with some great learning for others on all sides of this.  I personally feel I have learned great deal more about thyroid issues after reading everyone#%92s posts and appreciate the discussion and even mild debate.
     
    To the OP… hope things are going well for you and please do let us know how things turn out and the progress you are making.     [:)]
     

    The Ayn Rand Frequently Revolving Quote:

    "I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. "
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