Food aggression

• 04-07-2007 12:48 AM

  lookingoutforscout Joined on 10-11-2006 Indiana Posts 16 Points 0

  Food aggression Reply Contact My husband and I have 3 dogs.  1 male and 2 females.  Recently, we have noticed that the male is very aggressive towards food.  If we step forward at all to stop him from eating in the other dogs bowls he attack the other dog.  Tonight was the worst eposide we have seen.  It sounded like demon growls were coming out of him.  We though we had him calmed down so we brought the other two dogs out to see him.  They sniffed him. He was lying on the ground with my husband petting him.  As soon as we let him up he went after the smaller dog.  They are together now with not with what seems like no problems. Well, other than our little dog, Maybel seems scared of him a bit.  They are playing together but she wouldn't come inside earlier because he was standing at the door. Can anyone give us some advice.  Should we just feed him in a seperate room and if so is that okay.  Is the normal?

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• 04-07-2007 7:43 AM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  tzumommy Joined on 11-29-2006 Maryland (Cecil County) Posts 319 Points 0

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact To answer whether or not it is normal behavior, Yes.  It is quite normal for a dog to guard his food from other dogs.  They are opportunists and scavengers by nature.  If it's food and it's within reach, eat it NOW! Feeding them seperately would be beneficial for all involved.  The dogs will enjoy their mealtimes and you won't have to break up dog fights over kibble every night![] We though we had him calmed down so we brought the other two dogs out to see him. They sniffed him. He was lying on the ground with my husband petting him. As soon as we let him up he went after the smaller dog. This part confused me a bit; did this start while all three were being fed in the same area?  What do you mean you "brought the other two dogs out to see him" - Where were they?  Where did the scuffle start? Does he guard things from you or your husband?  That would concern me more [&:] There is a book that spiritdogs recommended to me by Jean Donaldson called "Mine! A Practical Guide To Resource Guarding in Dogs". If you Google it, you'll find a place to order it online.  It's not expensive, but it's a great little book that explains why some dogs feel the need to "guard" food, objects, or even people.  With your 3 dog household, I think it would be a valuable book to you and your family.  I'm not saying that your dogs ARE resource guarders, but this book will also teach you how to prevent it or recognize it before it starts. As to the issues between the male and your smaller dog; I think it would be helpful if you could provide a little more detail about the situation. For example, how old are each of your dogs, how long have you had each, what is their history (shelter, raised from puppy, etc.) I'm sure someone with more experience will be along to give you some insight and suggestions.  Hang in there! [] Angie

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• 04-07-2007 9:37 AM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,222 Points 10

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact Feed the dogs sepearately so he cant go for their food.... different rooms or crates if you have them.    Also do a forum search on resource guarding to make sure that the behaviour doesn't escalate towards humans..... "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 04-07-2007 10:48 AM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  lookingoutforscout Joined on 10-11-2006 Indiana Posts 16 Points 0

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact Thanks for the advice.  Scout, the male, just turned a year old this month.  The smaller dog Maybel not quite a year old yet. And our newest dog, Roxy is 2 years old.  We have only had the 3 of them about a month and a 1/2.  The aggression really started once Roxy came into the picture. Although for the most part the aggression is not towards Roxy it's towards Maybel.  All 3 could eat together without a problem at first!  Now they can't.  We did crate Maybel to eat.  We were trying to see what he would do with Roxy.  Both girls will eat in their crate but Scout will not.  Roxy tends to make a mess when she through eating (she digs at the bowl if there is still food it, but we feed them dry food so it's easy to clean up).As soon as you let Scout out of the crate, he will turn around and stand outside of his crate and eat but WILL NOT eat in his crate.    This really is werid behavior for Scout.  Although he is hyper, he is a 1 year old black lab mix, he is very sweet.  We have ferrets and he can be in the room with them (we are always with him, of course) and there are not problems.  In fact there are many times in which we will see Scout and our one ferret, Pretzels playing where Pretzels will be hanging by his teeth off Scouty's lips.  Scouty is a real sweet and loves other animals and people he is just agressive about this food. In fact, I woke up this morning and all 3 dogs where sleeping in the bed with my husband and I and we only have a queen size bed!  Thanks again for the advice.  Oh, yeah...Scout(black lab mix possible with pit bull and/or chow) was a stray that showed up one night when my husband came home from work. Maybel (beagle/sheltie (we think) was a pound puppy.  And Roxy(boxer/shephard? mix), was also a stray that showed up with another dog that we were fortunate enough to find the owner because he had a vet tag on.  That is all the history we know of these dogs.  They are all mutts, too!

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• 04-07-2007 11:59 AM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Cane Corso Joined on 11-28-2006 Posts 44 Points 0

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact Can anyone give us some advice.  Should we just feed him in a seperate room and if so is that okay.  Is the normal?    It is normal for dogs to feel rotective of their meal, but THEY do not have the right to jump on others.  Your dog attack other dogs while they are eating because your dog thinks he is the alpha. He has to eat first and finish the whole meal.  Obvious you did not watch his behavior close careful to see the red flag before the fight was going to happen. There are signals when a dog is getting ready to attack someone or other dogs. You have to block that behavior and make him submit to you. I have four dogs and they eat together in the same room.  They do not share the same bowl and they do not jump on each other. If one of my dogs finished his bowl first, he leaves out of the room or lay down on the floor.    If that was my dog, I would put it on prong collar. I would attach a leash and get a bowl of canned food to make him watch another dog eating. If he growls or tries to go after, I would correct him right away. Until he submits. This is something I would do to remind him daily.

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• 04-07-2007 12:26 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Xerxes Joined on 05-08-2006 Posts 5,622 Points 520

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact ORIGINAL: Cane Corso Can anyone give us some advice.  Should we just feed him in a seperate room and if so is that okay.  Is the normal?    If that was my dog, I would put it on prong collar. I would attach a leash and get a bowl of canned food to make him watch another dog eating. If he growls or tries to go after, I would correct him right away. Until he submits. This is something I would do to remind him daily.   That is exactly the opposite thing that I would do.  Never fight aggression with aggression.  Dogs escalate aggression when this happens.  Or they get hurt in the process.  Prong collars aren't meant for that purpose, if used properly.   Gaia was food aggressive when I first got her.  She thought that every morsel of food belonged to her.  The way I dealt with this is that I fed her in a seperate area.  I still do feed her in a seperate area.  And she is fed AFTER Xerxes gets his food.  She is confident that she WILL get her food and eat unmolested.    Now she will lick a bowl at the same time as Xerxes and the cat are licking it.  I don't recommend testing your situation like this, but the way I managed her situation has given her the confidence that she doesn't need to guard her food-she will eat and she will eat well.

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• 04-07-2007 1:04 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Cane Corso Joined on 11-28-2006 Posts 44 Points 0

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact ORIGINAL: Xerxes That is exactly the opposite thing that I would do.  Never fight aggression with aggression.  Dogs escalate aggression when this happens.  Or they get hurt in the process.  Prong collars aren't meant for that purpose, if used properly. I think you misunderstood how I was going to deal this. Prong collars were not use to harm the dog and I hardly have to do that many corrections with a prong collar than a flat collar. I agree people should learn how to use prong collar properly before use it. When I say I would confront, it does not I am fighting the dog in aggression. I am confronting the dog and making him submit to me. Mind you, I have three dominant breeds and they are not similar to herding breeds. They expect a mental challenage all the time, if the rule has gotten weaker. They will take over RIGHT away, there's no expectation.  My dogs are not for "average" pet owner who has no desire to confront. The difference between you and me is that you still feed your dog in the different room.You are willing to seperate your dogs during feed time all the time. I do not have the time to put each one in a different room and feed. I refer to feed them together in the same room and learn how to respect each other. They knew that none of them is an alpha.  They had no desire to fight over the leadership because  they like the rule I made.  I'm being fair and firm.

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• 04-07-2007 1:30 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  willowchow Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 6,184 Points 300	RE: Food aggression Reply Contact You have to block that behavior and make him submit to you.   Can you explain this further?  Also, how would you do that without taking a bite yourself?
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• 04-07-2007 1:40 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Angelique Joined on 10-04-2006 Posts 1,238 Points 200

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact Cane Corso, Just a tip from a fellow board member. I think it is very important when giving advice over the net to remember many situations require hands-on, eyes-on help when the situation may require the correct instruction in the use of a tool or a physical interaction with a dog who is showing aggression. We are a mix of folks here only giving our opinions based on our own experiences and knowledge on the learning curve, we are not there in person. I wouldn't want to see either the dog or a human harmed, would you? "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" Albert Einstein "There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the bank looking stupid"

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• 04-07-2007 2:21 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Xerxes Joined on 05-08-2006 Posts 5,622 Points 520

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact The difference between you and me is that you still feed your dog in the different room.You are willing to seperate your dogs during feed time all the time. I do not have the time to put each one in a different room and feed. I prefer to feed them together in the same room and learn how to respect each other. They knew that none of them is an alpha. They had no desire to fight over the leadership because they like the rule I made. I'm being fair and firm.   I do feed seperately.  But I could, if I wanted to, feed everyone out of a big communal bowl. (And that includes the cat.)  I don't feel that taking that particular risk is justified by my convenience.  And my dogs get fed 3 times a day!   And food aggression isn't about leadership-not in my experience-it's about resources or basic survival.    On the other hand, if you've never been around a PH, then you've no idea how dominant a dog they can be.  I've had so called "dominant" dogs in the past (Akita, GSDs) and believe me when I tell you that my 42lb pharaoh bitch makes them look like somewhat submissive. (I could tell you stories about how they take over the hierarchy but that would be OT.)  The funniest thing is that they don't HAVE to use aggression to become top dog- they will but they exhaust all other options first.   With regard to using the prong: I was stating my opinion.  I would never give a correction with a prong, they are designed to be "self-correcting."  In other words the dog pulls, the prongs pinch, the dog is encouraged not to pull.  To use them any other way is abusive, IMO.

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• 04-07-2007 4:56 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Cane Corso Joined on 11-28-2006 Posts 44 Points 0

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact ORIGINAL: willowchow You have to block that behavior and make him submit to you. Can you explain this further?  Also, how would you do that without taking a bite yourself? I would have a dog on the leash whenever it comes to other dog's bowl. I would start with verbal first, if the dog ignores me. It depends on the dog what it is doing. If the dog tried to walk after the dog, I would use the leash as an correction. Yes I would use a prong collar and a leash.  If the dog did not go after the dog, I would use my finger to poke his neck to get his attention. I would correct him every time he stares. If he chose to go through avoidance, there is no corrections.  I would do the alpha roll only if I really have to with a muzzle. I considered myself experienced so I don't suggest others trying it. Usually dogs who are well trained on the leash, respect the leash more.

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• 04-07-2007 5:16 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Cane Corso Joined on 11-28-2006 Posts 44 Points 0

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact And food aggression isn't about leadership-not in my experience-it's about resources or basic survival   I've had so called "dominant" dogs in the past (Akita, GSDs) and believe me when I tell you that my 42lb pharaoh bitch makes them look like somewhat submissive. (I could tell you stories about how they take over the hierarchy but that would be OT.)  The funniest thing is that they don't HAVE to use aggression to become top dog- they will but they exhaust all other options first.     No I disagree. Not all dogs are food aggression. Your dogs have issue with this and my dogs don't. Stray dogs who did not find food enough are more likely to develop food aggression. They do not know when they will feed or how often they will find the food. We know that wolves and dogs are much similar, except that dogs are evoluted for men's purprose.  The alpha female and alpha male wolves are the FIRST one to serve before others.  A wolf who has the lowest status will eat LAST. Yes, food does play a big role in leadership.  A good video of food aggression can be viewed by Cesar Millian's show. I believe he was working with a bernese mountain dog who has a food aggression.  When I hear people giving an advice to others that they need to do hand feed or just put a dog in a seperated room, they really think it helps. Well easy solution just put a dog in different room so he does not have to deal with others.    May I ask, what if you accident spilled a food in the kitchern. Now what are you going to do? I guess your dog does not know the boundary so she will go after that food. Maybe a fight is waiting to happen?   Your dog is not a dominant breed and it has never earned the name. Your dog can inherit a dominant personality just like other dogs. If your dog has a food aggression, it means you can not control her around other dogs.    I guarantee you my dogs have a lot respect for authority when it comes with food, toys, anything. Right now I am training my rottweiler in schutzhund.

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• 04-07-2007 5:34 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,222 Points 10

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact Cane Corso, you appear to respond to every problem by suggesting that the person needs to "make the dog submit to you".   First:  Not all problems stem from "dominance".  Food aggression is frequently displayed by dogs who are NOT "alpha" - they are just scared another dog is going to take their food away and they do what Nature has programmed to do to fit them for survival.... A dog who does not eat starves and dies.  So they protect their food.  "Lower ranking" dogs in wild packs have also been seen to do this; defend what they have from a higher ranking individual.  In the dog-world, posession really is ten tenths of the law.  Frequently human actions inadvertantly compound the problem, or start it in the first place.   Second:  "Making a dog submit to you" sounds very confrontational and implies direct conflict between human and dog.  This is very often inadvisable..... often it is not the right technique for the dog and even if it IS (and I am dubious such an approach is ever a good one) it should be done with care and with the help of an experienced, ethical and compassionate professional and NOT on the advice of a faceless stranger on an internet forum.    I would like to emphasise that there are ways to "make a dog submit to you" which DO NOT involve any kind of direct conflict or correctional device, and simply rely on attitude, calm and out-thinking the dog.   Would also like to emphasise that you should not deliver a correction with a prong collar.  It is not how they are intended to be used.  They are a self-correcting device.  I fail to see how "making a dog's neck hurt" convinces him you are a benevolent leader, worthy of trust and respect.... it merely punishes a dog for an unwanted behaviour, it has sod-all to do with "leadership" IMO.  That is a seperate kettle of fish. "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 04-07-2007 7:22 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  janet_rose Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW area, Texas Posts 3,618 Points 330

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact I would do the alpha roll only if I really have to with a muzzle. I considered myself experienced so I don't suggest others trying it. If you are doing alpha rolls based on canine behavior theory, may I point out that the idea of an alpha rolling a subordinate to express dominance has been thoroughly debunked.  Subordinates voluntarily roll on their backs to say "you are the boss".  If a dog (alpha or otherwise) forces a roll, it is a very serious, life threatening move.

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• 04-07-2007 9:00 PM

  In reply to lookingoutforscout

  MhadDog Joined on 06-25-2006 Posts 1,478 Points 0

  RE: Food aggression Reply Contact I sometimes can hardly believe the opinions I read on here on training a dog in serious matters such as agression. I would urge any large breed dog owner(and I will only speak to this group because of the larger potential of danger)to use their heads in 1st,not setting up confrontation with their dog,and secondly,physically challenging a dog should only be a last resort to fending off an attack. When anyone speaks of such things as alpha rolls,or prong corrections at feeding time,with other dogs present,I shudder because I know that this (in my mind at least,am I alone?)is a great way to lose a dogs trust .Doing these things enough,over a period of time could very well cause your "obedient "dog to one day lash out at you.For the people this happens to,I would imagine it comes as a complete surprize when Fidos' rage turns against them. When I feed my large northern breed  dominant dogs,I set up a situation where I know I am incontrol,without the use of tools.I set their dishes in a way where they cannot get to them until I am ready.Use geography to your favor,or house set up if you prefer. My female is very food motivated,and used to be food agressive with the other dogs.Because she has my complete trust,and visa versa,she knows not to go after any food but her own,and if she even thinks about it,a command is enough to make her look me in my eyes,and return to her bowl. I do not always feed in one room,but will always feed where the dogs are in sight of eachother.

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