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What would you do?(willow)

Last post 11-04-2009 12:16 AM by willowchow. 9 replies.
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  • 11-02-2009 8:50 PM

    What would you do?(willow)

    Willow has been loosing her fur more so than she should be.  I took her to the vet and her physical exam was good.  She had a complete blood panel done including sending a thyroid test to Michigan state.   The tests all came back normal. 

    At this point, her vet wants to draw more blood for hormone problems and check for Cushings/Addison's.

    Wouldn't something be abnomal on her blood tests if she had either of these things.  And, wouldn't I be seeing something besides this hair loss?  She's eating well, she's been feeling really good. 

    It's not that time or money is the issue.  I just feel that if this isn't needed, she's been thru enough. 

    The other kicker is the vet does not want her to have her teeth cleaned until we check for these things.  So, in a way, I'm sort of stuck.  She needs the dental.  I've been delaying it because I'm scared for her to go under and also because her health has been iffy.  But, she's ready at this point. 

    Do you guys think I should call the vet back and re-discuss?  I really think it's just grabbing at straws with everything else normal.  I'm worried though she's going to think it's about money. 

    Thanks!

    Lori

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  • 11-02-2009 9:07 PM In reply to willowchow

    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    Honestly, if she were mine, I'd have her tested.  Both of those diseases are easier to deal with when they are caught early.

    ETA: Sometimes, in advanced stages of Cushings, liver enzyme levels will be elevated.  In early stages, they may not be off at all.  I also believe that some Addison's dogs will have sodium levels that are off.  FWIW, an Addisonian crisis is absolutely nothing to mess with.

    Amanda
    Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to use sarcasm.
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  • 11-02-2009 9:13 PM In reply to willowchow

    • CoBuHe
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    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    But its not about the money.  You don't want her to endure more...I get that.  Delay the dental....its not critical that it be done now, is it?   Then, later call the vet back and discuss your feelings about the blood tests while also relaying the need for the dental, if needed.

    Good luck Lori!  I have a cat who used to lose his fur seasonally...he was ok....felt fine....just naked in places.  Loved me up the same every day.  Smile

    "No matter how little money and how few possessions you own, having a dog makes you rich." Louis Sabin
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  • 11-02-2009 9:28 PM In reply to CoBuHe

    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    You need to tell the vet that you don't understand why he wants to run those tests. Don't settle for just in case or some similar answer. Ask him to explain in detail: what symptoms is he basing his decision on and what are the risks of having a dental done with having one of those diseases. Again, just approach it as you are really confused and trying to understand the details behind it.
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  • 11-02-2009 11:09 PM In reply to Jewlieee

    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    The way Dr. D (holistic vet) explains it -- after they've had such a critical disease (as Billy's IMHA or Willow's thrombocytopenia) the longer term steroid use creates a situation in the body the sorta sets it up to **look** "Cushingoid" -- that's literally the term she uses.  It doesn't mean they HAVE it ... it means they just sorta look "iffy" enough LIKE Cushings that it's the first thing that jumps out at them.

     So in total honesty, the **responsible** vet suggestion is to test for Cushings and Addisons'.  They are kind of "opposites" (Cushings comes after long term steroid use, Addisons is where the body doesn't produce enough of it) but again the profile almost similarly. 

    Lori, Billy has been "tested" for Cushings ... hmm, like FOUR TIMES I think over the last 3 years.  Simply because he's in a high risk group -- big disease, long term steroids, cruddy skin and/or coat.  So they test **first**. 

    Then -- once that's clear they go on.  At this point they've got those tests so they are finding it earlier and earlier.  FINDING it is key -- That's why not only do regular vets do it, but the holistic vets stand there and nod and say 'Yeah, you gotta test for THAT'. 

    The test doesn't hurt.  It's a specific blood workup but they have to be fasted for a certain number of hours, and then they draw blood and THEN they feed them and after a certain length of time they draw blood again.

     I think your vet is gonna say "No, I don't **really** think it is, but we **MUST** elminate it before we look further. 

    It's honestly just one of the things a vet has to do in order to be responsible.  Because to ignore a Cushings test, when it profiles LIKE Cushings, and go on to other things just isn't the right way to do it.  Because if you treat for Cushings (or Addisons) ***BEFORE** it actually manifests in the blood, kidneys or liver -- THEN you've got a heck of a good chance of successful treatment and management of the disease for a long, long, LONG time.

    But ... if you let either of those diseases go **until** they manifest in the regular bloodwork?  You've got a SICK dog on your hands that may not respond well to treatment.

    Four times Billy's been tested and four times it's come back negative.  A waste?  nope.  Because we had to elminate that first.  And if it WAS Cushings, then I'd have a whole lot better chance even of treating it holistically without it being a death sentence. 

    Both Cushings and Addisons are "body balance" problems.  That's why the early detection is such a big deal. 

    It's like renal problems -- if you catch them SUPER early you've got a danged good shot at maintenance for a good long while -- because you're catching it before there is big damage.  But if you don't catch it early -- and you wait until bloodwork shows renal failure -- you've got a dog who won't live long.

    Really -- don't be afraid of it.  It's a p.i.t.a. because she's got to be fasted and she's not going to enjoy it.  I think it's like 4-6 hours after food that they draw the 2d vial of blood -- so she does have to be there a while. 

    I know that isn't good news -- but it's not horrible. 

    Let's see - how can I compare this to something else to make it make sense??  It's kinda like they want we ladies to do a mammogram annually after a certain age.  Then if they find a problem on the mammogram THEN they go further.  They don't just zoom in and biopsy the first lump someone feels. 

    Now some of us are in a higher risk group for breast cancer than others.  So you take checking things seriously -- maybe younger or more often.  That doesn't mean you're gonna get it -- it just means you have to take extra steps to be vigilant because catching early is critical.

     I'm just trying to compare this with something else so it makes sense.  There are some dogs who won't EVER have a bile acids test for Cushings.  Wouldn't ever even occur.  But then there are 'speshul' dogs like Willow and Billy the Venturer who are in that riskier group.   


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  • 11-03-2009 1:43 AM In reply to calliecritturs

    • grab01
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    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    I would probably do the test, for nothing more than the peace of mind. It's not too stressful..just two blood draws about an hour apart. If she is going to have a dental in the somewhat near future you could even have them do her preop from the same blood draw so that it saves her an additional poking.   Ginger had a test for Cushings earlier this year. It came back fine.

     Is hairloss her only symptom? If she's in need of a dental and isn't showing other issues, it seems odd they'd put it off.  Not that Cushings is in any way something to mess around with, but dental problems can also cause their own health issues if left untreated.

     Hope Willow is doing well either way.  Anesthesia is always a concern with all pets, but if it helps, both of my Chow boys always did great with anesthesia

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  • 11-03-2009 6:18 PM In reply to grab01

    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    Thank you guys.  Willow says thanks too and she's really doing fine. 

    After reading everything I think I'm convinced she needs the test done.  She's had it done a few years back too and it was negative.  But, now after her illness last year her vet thinks she should be re-checked.  I think she's just being overly cautious as far as the dental.  Willow has a complicated history so I can appreciate that.  Although, it makes me crazy at times.  Poor Willow goes thru more blood work than you can imagine. 

    But, thank you guys for your answers.  They really helped.  DH has me make all the decisions about Willow's health because we are so attached he doesn't want to be responsible if God forbid something was to happen. 

    Lori

     

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  • 11-03-2009 7:50 PM In reply to willowchow

    • FrisbyPI
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    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    Lori,

    Let us know how everything goes with the tests. I know Willow must be tired of donating her blood for all her tests! Frisby and I will be sending good thoughts to all of you.

    Kate and Frisby
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  • 11-03-2009 9:06 PM In reply to FrisbyPI

    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    This is a guess -- but an educated guess given that your vet has always been So good -- I have a feeling that there is likely something about the dental (either the sedative, or something) that would need to be done differently if she had Cushings -- so likely your vet doesn't want to risk doing it and causing a problem that she feels like she should have known about before hand.

    Good luck!


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  • 11-04-2009 12:16 AM In reply to calliecritturs

    Re: What would you do?(willow)

    She said it could be life threatening to put a dog under anesthesia with Addison's or Cushings.  And, in addition to Willow's breed(which does not do well with anesthesia), her history and age, it would be much too much of a risk. 

    Also, she said that she understands Willow has been thru so much.  And, she knows how I feel about continued testing that isn't essential.  But, she feels that this one really is because Prednisone use at the doses she got and the length of time she got it for could actually cause adrenal and hormone problems.  And, yes, her bloodwork is all good but that doesn't mean she doesn't have Addison's.  It could be just very early.  And, if that's the case, now is the time to catch it.  

    If she tests positive she won't be able to have the dental at all.  Or, at least not right away. 

    If she's negative, she can have her teeth cleaned.  And, she offered me to have her skin biopsied while under to further investigate the fur loss.  But, she knows I'm unsure so she said let's take one step at a time. 

    Thanks!!  Willow has done zoomies two nights in a row!  This cold weather really gets her moving.  She's waking me up with her nose on my chest either staring or growling to get my attention. 

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