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Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

Last post 10-27-2009 1:02 PM by luvmyswissy. 18 replies.
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  • 10-20-2009 2:34 PM

    • boomers_mom
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    Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    Since we lost our Boomer girl back in March (RIP sweet girl!) it has been a hard decision to get another dog. BUT, I have to admit, I am totally in love with the Entlebucher Mountain Dog. I recently came across this breed and went into instant research mode. I found a breeder that I am interested in, but they are over three hours from me. Anyone have any advice how to find out more about said breeder? Of course the website looks good and the pictures are beautiful but I'd hate to drive all that way to find it's not what I was expecting. Confused I wish I knew someone near this place to scope it out.

    Any words of wisdom for me?

    Thank you!!!

     

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  • 10-20-2009 3:05 PM In reply to boomers_mom

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    Honestly, if the breeder has puppies NOW with absolutely no wait?  That's not a good sign.  If the breeder is perfectly willing, no questions asked, to sell you a puppy -- NOT a good sign.

    Good breeders should be as picky (or more) about YOU than you are about them.  How much have they checked YOU out?  Agreements/contracts?  Do they "ship" (man, I hate to see a breeder ship for ANY reason)

    Contact the breed organization for this breed -- they'll likely be able to tell you how favorable they are as well. Are they part of the solution or part of the problem.


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  • 10-20-2009 3:30 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • JackieG
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    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    We have a member who has one of these dogs. I can't remember her name, someone with a better memory might.  Maybe she'll pop in to give you some advice on her breeder search.   To me, it's well worth the three hour drive to check out a breeder.  The exception would be a breeder known to me by their reputation with that breed and by personal referrals from people I know and trust.  I've driven much farther than three hours to check out a breeder but I live in Texas where it can take you all day to get out of the state, depending on where you live.   We call three hours, one way, a short day trip. lol




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  • 10-20-2009 3:31 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    I agree with Callie. Expect them to question you. Not nonsensical questions, but I felt like it was just stuff they were trying to determine if the breed was a good choice, and if the dog that was available would be a good fit with me. Just as much as you don't want to drive to find out it's not what you wanted, a good breeder probably doesn't want to make you drive all that way if they don't have anything for you. I'm sure Luke's breeder also didn't want to go through the effort of having me come to her house if it didn't seem likely that I was going to get him, or if not him, a dog in the future when she had more puppies.

    For three hours, I would probably make the drive to meet this person, but to me, three hours is no big deal. I drive that every other week anyway. I drove about an hour and a half to a breeder I decided not to get a dog from, and an hour and a half to the one I got Luke from. I used to go two hours to pick up bearded dragons, because I was nervous about having them shipped. It also allowed me to see how nicely kept they were, and to talk face to face with the breeder. I would ship with them now that I have been there and know they are good, but not the first time. Maybe if I knew someone who had dealt with them.

    If the person won't let you make the drive, that's a definite no. I'd rather drive out all that way and find out it's not what I was expecting than not drive out all that way and find out it's not what I was expecting.

    Emperor of the Markie Fan Club
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  • 10-20-2009 4:12 PM In reply to griffinej5

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    I would expect them to question you, expect them to expect you to question them, ask to see proof of all relevant health certs (not familiar with this breed).  Make sure they are recommended by other breeders.  That is a biggy to me, I won't ever use any breeder that isn't well known within the breed and recommended by fellow breeders.

    Some helpful articles: http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net/breeding.html


    http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net
    http://www.schhmi.com
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  • 10-21-2009 11:22 PM In reply to boomers_mom

    • Beejou
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    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

     

    T-Bone's breeder is just about 6 hours one way from where I live. I went to see her kennel 3 times before commiting. I know the drive can be a drag, but nothing compares to the peace of mind that comes with knowing your breeder, his/her dogs, the cleanliness of the place, etc. The drive is worth it!

     

    Edited to say : Visiting with all her dogs also helped me pick out what litter I wanted to get on a waiting list for. Some of her dogs were higher drive/more protective, some were more mellow, etc. Looking at the parent dogs helped me pick the pup *I* needed. Before you make the trip I'd email her and ask her what her goal is breeding these dogs, health check, if she competes in showing, how long she's been breeding, if she offers a health guarantee, and if she's willing, maybe you can get in touch with some people who own pups she's produced. Just my thoughts!

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  • 10-21-2009 11:50 PM In reply to boomers_mom

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    boomers_mom:

    Since we lost our Boomer girl back in March (RIP sweet girl!) it has been a hard decision to get another dog. BUT, I have to admit, I am totally in love with the Entlebucher Mountain Dog. I recently came across this breed and went into instant research mode. I found a breeder that I am interested in, but they are over three hours from me. Anyone have any advice how to find out more about said breeder? Of course the website looks good and the pictures are beautiful but I'd hate to drive all that way to find it's not what I was expecting. Confused I wish I knew someone near this place to scope it out.

    Any words of wisdom for me?

    Thank you!!!

     

    Honestly??  I would just make the drive down to see if you feel comfortable with this breeder.  While you are there, you can check all of the sire & dam's health certification paperwork, as well as getting to see what they are like.  There is no way that I would buy a puppy from someone who I hadn't met, nor would I expect a reputable breeder to sell me a puppy after only talking to my by phone or email.

    I am currently meeting potential breeders for my next puppy, which is a few years away.  So far, I have met with one from California, one from New York, & four from here in Texas.  I am still planning on meeting another one in Kansas.  I am looking for a very specific type of dog, so I know that I will, most likely, have to do some travel to get what I want.

    All that being said, I travel 3 hours each way to take one of my dogs to the vet, so maybe I'm a little crazy.

    Amanda
    Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to use sarcasm.
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  • 10-22-2009 12:36 AM In reply to calliecritturs

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    calliecritturs:

    Honestly, if the breeder has puppies NOW with absolutely no wait?  That's not a good sign.  If the breeder is perfectly willing, no questions asked, to sell you a puppy -- NOT a good sign.

     Why is that?

     There are multiple ways to check out breeders. In a rare breed such as Entlebuchers, most breeders will likely all know each other or at least know of each other. You can ask for references from other breeders and/or puppy owners. With rare breeds, you often won't find a breeder close by but a plus is you will find a lot more dedicated breeders who "do stuff" with their dogs, are knowledge about the breed and health issues than you will find casual breeders. All breeds have parents clubs, so you can check the parent club's website to see if the breeder is a member and a part of their Code of Ethics Program (membership doesn't make or break a breeder though, it is just a resource). I would also suggest joining a breed-specific email list, which is a great place to learn about the breed and breeders. You can often ask on such a list about specifc breeders as long as you ask for replies to be sent privately. You can probably contact the breed club to ask about breed specific email lists as well. They also have a list of upcoming shows, which would be another good resource for talking to breeders. The breed club in this case is: http://www.nemda.org/ 

     As everyone said, expect to be questioned about your lifestyle as it would pertain to the dog. And to be educated about the breed and their specific needs. I agree that if the breeder is only 3 hours away, you should consider visiting them at home. Having puppies available now or soon or not for awhile or having/not having a waiting list says absolutely nothing about if a breeder is good or bad. What the NEMDA says is important for breeders is maintaining genetic diversity, breeding physically/mentally stable dogs, breeding dogs free of heritable defects such as  mon-orchidism or crypt-orchidism, ectopic ureters/ hydronephrosis, hip or elbow dysplasia, heart defects, for health the importance of OFA and/or Pennhip is stressed, along with yearly CERFs and an OptoGen test (DNA test) for an eye condition, breed dogs no earlier than 18 months, have no more than 6 litters out of one female, lifetime responsibility to puppies, screening homes, keeping accurate records and DNA IDing all breeding stock. You can read their detailed requirements for breeders to be listed with them on the website I posted above.

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  • 10-22-2009 10:18 AM In reply to AgileGSD

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    I have no advise or knowledge  on breeders but I was  not familiar with this breed.  Since it was Mountain Dog...I ck'd the site suggested by Agile.  I can certainly see why you are researching this breed.  What a beautiful dog.  I didnt read all the info yet but wanted to wish you luck on your search.

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  • 10-22-2009 10:43 PM In reply to shadowsgin

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    Both breeders I've gotten dogs from were at least 3 hours away. With Beau we went and visited twice before we brought him home. The breeder required a face to face meeting to see how Josie (who was pretty young) would behave around a toy breed. She was fine but in toys it's sometimes bad to place dogs with little kids. With Mia, I had never met the breeder but knew their reputation. I talked to them through email for a few days, they had a pup at that moment that seemed like a good fit. I ended up driving out there and picking Mia up on the same day that I met the breeder. But it was a breed I am very familiar with, have been involved in the chow scene with and a breeder with a good reputation among papillon people.

    Papillons- You can't just have one
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  • 10-23-2009 1:02 AM In reply to boomers_mom

    • t__m
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    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    Talus' breeder was 5 hrs away...
    We met them at Rare Breed shows and saw Mom before hand & researched Dad...

    She is a wonderful person...very dedicated to the breed...wonderful kennel..

     

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  • 10-23-2009 2:18 AM In reply to BEVOLASVEGAS

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    BEVOLASVEGAS:


    Honestly??  I would just make the drive down to see if you feel comfortable with this breeder. 

     

     

    Agreed.  Three hours actually doesn't seem that bad for a rare breed.  If I were you and I were serious about a pup then i would make the trip.

    ~Christina~
    Sally the Pibble Mix
    Jack the Lab


    "Fifteen men on the dead man's chest-
    Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!"
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  • 10-23-2009 6:51 AM In reply to sillysally

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    My next dobe is either coming from Oregon or Pennsylvania. It will be awhile, but i will probably fly out to meet the breeder and some of their dogs, or try to catch them at a show near me.

    I'm very dissapointed the breeder i like from Oregon was at DPCA nationals last week (i was there too!!) and i never ran into her. I should've emailed her in advance...


    Eat, drink, and be merry...for tomorrow we die..."
    - Dave Matthews Band

    Megan

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  • 10-23-2009 8:36 AM In reply to calliecritturs

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    calliecritturs:

    Honestly, if the breeder has puppies NOW with absolutely no wait? 

     

    Depends.  With Nikon's breeder, there is no "wait", no "pick", and no "deposit".  She simply gets to know you, and when she has a puppy available that meets your needs, you can get it.  Her demand always exceeds supply, but not everyone is an appropriate fit.  So someone might call up the breeder, wait 6 months for a litter, none of the puppies are appropriate for them, and someone who called a week before the litter was born gets one.  The puppies are not "reserved" and she doesn't accept deposits.  Basically anyone is a viable home up until the day they go home.  I consider us to be good friends and yet I did not know which puppy I was getting until the day they were all going home, we spent hours interacting with them.  She had one in mind but wanted to make sure and Nikon ended up being the one she always had in mind for me.  I wanted her to pick since she's with them everyday (I only handle the puppies when they are 7 weeks or so b/c I am around so many other dogs, I don't usually go near the whelping box but other people who aren't around dogs come in to socialize).


    http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net
    http://www.schhmi.com
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  • 10-23-2009 8:47 AM In reply to Liesje

    Re: Far (ish) away breeder - how do you know?

    In paps it is very common for people to breed without wait lists. Litters are so small and breeders keep back a lot of pups until they're at least 6 months old. You really don't know before a breeding if you'll even have any puppies available for people. So when I went looking for Mia, Mia's breeder had four pups from two litters available (2 had been grown out and were 8 months old). We were on a 'wait list' for Beau. We talked to the breeder after the previous litter was taken and we were put on the list for the next breeding. Luckily there was an extra pup for us, but a lot of the wait and the breeder picks the pup for you doesn't work in a breed where litters are often 1-2 puppies. And papillons are VERY easy to sell. They're popular and small and cute, breeders don't have a problem with not finding good homes. And it's not too hard to keep an extra papillon or two since they're small.

    Papillons- You can't just have one
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