What should I think of her actions?

I have a feeling Bonita is going to have a good reply for you BUT in the meantime......

-Have the females ever been around eachother in heat before?

-How old is the offfending dog? Meaning, has she recently reached maturity?

-Lastly, am sure you know the potentail danger of having two unaltered females, it can be far worse then males. So without getting out of line.....why do you have two unaltered females?

I think poster on another forum got it figured out. The one might have thought the other was a strange dog and just reacted on that. Which could make sense as normally I put strange/stray/visiting dogs in the big crate in the bathroom and my own dogs have a room upstairs. Anyway I'm not opposed to other theories. 

AuroraLove

I have a feeling Bonita is going to have a good reply for you BUT in the meantime......

-Have the females ever been around eachother in heat before?

-How old is the offfending dog? Meaning, has she recently reached maturity?

-Lastly, am sure you know the potentail danger of having two unaltered females, it can be far worse then males. So without getting out of line.....why do you have two unaltered females?

 

 Well yes and no....the female in heat now this is her first season, the other female was in heat in April/May so the female in now was around her at that time.

The offending dog is almost 6yrs old.

I never said the other female was intact in my original post, only now did I say she was in heat a couple months ago, so I think you assumed.

I don't think the "why" is important in knowing the reason for the actions or your thoughts on it but I realize there are a lot of pro s/n people out there. I'm not one of them but I have no problem answering, because it breaks the rules to show them altered. If you are found out you can actually be banned from showing dogs again period. While the 6yr old is finished in one org I do not want to get her spayed and be unable to put multi titles on her, I do not need to justify this decision to anyone. This is the young females first heat and I'm glad it came between shows, as I wouldn't mind another big win and was worried about her coming in heat on a show. While some of the shows allow females in heat I won't show mine, other shows don't allow them in heat. The other poster I spoke of thinks that also her scent in heat could have thrown the other off to think that she was a strange dog too. She didn't catch a familiar scent right away and that is usually where strange dogs are crated.

 (I know the potential dangers of keeping 2 or more Pit Bulls. Whether they be same sex intact or opposite sex and altered. They did not have any previous dislike or signs that something could be brewing)
 

Spicy_Bulldog

I don't think the "why" is important in knowing the reason for the actions or your thoughts on it but I realize there are a lot of pro s/n people out there. I'm not one of them but I have no problem answering, because it breaks the rules to show them altered. If you are found out you can actually be banned from showing dogs again period. While the 6yr old is finished in one org I do not want to get her spayed and be unable to put multi titles on her, I do not need to justify this decision to anyone

I think you misunderstood the intention of the question. As, until now, no one knew you were showing. Yes, some showing requires intact dogs. And you were asked politely, instead of someone just assuming that you were going to breed and lay down the law about that.

And no, you don't have to justify anything but your in a forum chock full of people who are for s/n. Sorry about your luck.

 

ron2

Spicy_Bulldog

I don't think the "why" is important in knowing the reason for the actions or your thoughts on it but I realize there are a lot of pro s/n people out there. I'm not one of them but I have no problem answering, because it breaks the rules to show them altered. If you are found out you can actually be banned from showing dogs again period. While the 6yr old is finished in one org I do not want to get her spayed and be unable to put multi titles on her, I do not need to justify this decision to anyone

I think you misunderstood the intention of the question. As, until now, no one knew you were showing. Yes, some showing requires intact dogs. And you were asked politely, instead of someone just assuming that you were going to breed and lay down the law about that.

And no, you don't have to justify anything but your in a forum chock full of people who are for s/n. Sorry about your luck.

 

 I think they did ask politely no doubt, but I didn't see the relevance to the situation is all. That is why I said that, sorry if I seemed offended because I really wasn't.

I didn't realize this was an anti breeders forum. I do not need to be preached to however. I respect others opinions on breeding or keeping intact dogs (them being against it) but they should not try to change my mind. Therefore "laying down the law" won't do any good with me.

I'm not pro s/n, especially not early s/n so had this female turned out to be pet quality she would have been spayed after this season. She is just over a year old right now.  

 Sorry also for assuming that they knew I was currently showing dogs.

 I have absolutely no insight on your dog's behavior as I've not dealt with unaltered females, but there are others that keep unaltered dogs around here---you are certainly not alone.

I believe that at least a few of Gina's (rwbeagles) dogs are intact, as are Bonita's and Houndmusic's.  I know there is at least on other beagle breeders that comes on here occasionally and there are other posters who do not breed but own intact dogs for show purposes, etc.

I would not characterize the entire board as anti-breeder, but more anti back-yard breeder--the above mentioned posters are breeders.

I hope you don't feel you have to defend yourself.  I'm getting a male and he will be left intact for several reasons (that do NOT include breeding).  My GSD was intact until she was almost 4 years old.

I don't have any advice, but last time my dogs were around a female in heat, everything was thrown out of whack!  ALL the dogs were acting up and acting strange. 

To me it sounds like she was just startled and thought the other female was a strange dog. If my Frankie is outside and i go out back from a different door like to take out the trash sometiems Frankie will start barking his gaurd dog bark at me...till he sees that I am not a scarey robber. The look on his face is like "OMG mom, Im sorry. I didnt know it was you!" And his whole body will start wiggling.

sillysally

 I have absolutely no insight on your dog's behavior as I've not dealt with unaltered females, but there are others that keep unaltered dogs around here---you are certainly not alone.

I believe that at least a few of Gina's (rwbeagles) dogs are intact, as are Bonita's and Houndmusic's.  I know there is at least on other beagle breeders that comes on here occasionally and there are other posters who do not breed but own intact dogs for show purposes, etc.

I would not characterize the entire board as anti-breeder, but more anti back-yard breeder--the above mentioned posters are breeders.

 
I doubt it really has much to do with being unaltered. I've had both male and female intact and altered dogs. Guess I can't know either way if this same situation would happened if they were both altered. I do believe the idea of her thinking it was a strange dog would make the most sense.

Thanks for the info though on the different posters. I understand being against byb and unethical breeding practices. That to me makes sense. The way the other reply was written rather then how it was meant seemed to imply something different. As it seemed if I said oh I plan to breed whichever of the two females I would have got a speech about how breeding is bad, ect.

Liesje it will be nice to see your GSD boy. Are those your other 2 in your siggy? They are both very pretty dogs.

Kyda I do believe you are right. The thing is my altered Boxer would have reacted the same way. I've seen similar reaction as you with some dogs not recognizing their human right off too, then realizing it, they instantly shut off. 

Spicy_Bulldog

I didn't realize this was an anti breeders forum. I do not need to be preached to however

Don't worry, you'll get preached at, anyway.

Spicy_Bulldog

Sorry also for assuming that they knew I was currently showing dogs.

So, someone asks a question because there wasn't enough info and we have to listen to all this bravado anyway?

 

 

Spicy_Bulldog

Liesje it will be nice to see your GSD boy. Are those your other 2 in your siggy? They are both very pretty dogs.

 

Yes, they are also mine but are altered (the female GSD was spayed at age 4).  My pup will not be altered because I plan to show him (SV and possibly UKC, NOT AKC).  Also, the breeder is very "European" in her attitudes and breeding criteria (strict, purposeful breeding, but doesn't believe ALL dogs have to be altered).  The people she gives dogs to are very responsible and have no problems with unaltered males.  Because GSDs are so slow to mature, it can be detrimental to alter them too early anyway.  The females she wants altered at maturity because she won't allow them to be bred anyway (unless they are co-owned) and there is a great risk of pyometra and breast cancer in GSDs.

Given the fact that you seem experienced about bully breeds generally and the pit behavior specifically - even though it may not be something you *really* want to consider, to my mind it has **all** to do with them both being intact.

Dog's have LONG scent memories.  I could go on and on about it but I've had MY dogs greet a total stranger with open paws IF scent boxes were exchanged. 

I doubt your older female thot the younger was 'strange' or new, but if you think about what happens when a dog is crated "downstairs" (I think you said downstairs) it likely follows that dog gets some sort of extra or unusual treatment and attention.  If SHE didn't get singled out during her heat and this one did, she may have been trying to draw your attention to the fact that she's your alpha female, SHE was in heat first, and everyone else should be subordinate in the pack.  So by appearing dominant to your other in-season female she was simply stating she was still lead dog. 

 Same thing will happen if you pay more attention to a new female -- your more dominant dogs will object.

Remember -- she doesn't understand WHY the younger female was crated -- they draw their conclusions based on what happens next or what usually happens in THAT scenario.

Dogs are SO in tune with scent -- to think that the 2d dog didn't recognize the scent of a dog she lives with?  I think that's pretty unlikely.

Spicy_Bulldog

 

 I think they did ask politely no doubt, but I didn't see the relevance to the situation is all. That is why I said that, sorry if I seemed offended because I really wasn't.

Therefore "laying down the law" won't do any good with me.

.

Wow, sorry to see that this got out of hand. I wasnt aware of your experience with having intact females together and THAT was the relevance of why I asked. Two females can be a handful and not for the average owner, let alone with our beloved breed so I apoligize for trying to cover all my bases. Hope everything works out for you.

ron2

Spicy_Bulldog

I didn't realize this was an anti breeders forum. I do not need to be preached to however

Don't worry, you'll get preached at, anyway.

Spicy_Bulldog

Sorry also for assuming that they knew I was currently showing dogs.

So, someone asks a question because there wasn't enough info and we have to listen to all this bravado anyway?

I'm not worried bring on the preaching, people are free to waste their time.

Excuse me there was enough info, the question they asked why they are intact has nothing to do with it. Whatever the reason the outcome and issue are the same.

I could say they assumed I was no longer showing. Instead I apologized for them not knowing. I have nothing against them or them asking the question, otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered answering.

You don't have to listen to anything, I did not force you to visit and read my replies.

Liesje

Spicy_Bulldog

Liesje it will be nice to see your GSD boy. Are those your other 2 in your siggy? They are both very pretty dogs.

Yes, they are also mine but are altered (the female GSD was spayed at age 4).  My pup will not be altered because I plan to show him (SV and possibly UKC, NOT AKC).  Also, the breeder is very "European" in her attitudes and breeding criteria (strict, purposeful breeding, but doesn't believe ALL dogs have to be altered).  The people she gives dogs to are very responsible and have no problems with unaltered males.  Because GSDs are so slow to mature, it can be detrimental to alter them too early anyway.  The females she wants altered at maturity because she won't allow them to be bred anyway (unless they are co-owned) and there is a great risk of pyometra and breast cancer in GSDs.

I don't do AKC either. I know what you mean about the european type breeders. Yes it can be very bad with the early s/n on many breeds. A lot of people don't realize it though. That is my main concern with intact females pyometra. It is the reason why I will spay a female who is through because of that risk.

calliecritturs

Given the fact that you seem experienced about bully breeds generally and the pit behavior specifically - even though it may not be something you *really* want to consider, to my mind it has **all** to do with them both being intact.

Dog's have LONG scent memories.  I could go on and on about it but I've had MY dogs greet a total stranger with open paws IF scent boxes were exchanged.

I doubt your older female thot the younger was 'strange' or new, but if you think about what happens when a dog is crated "downstairs" (I think you said downstairs) it likely follows that dog gets some sort of extra or unusual treatment and attention.  If SHE didn't get singled out during her heat and this one did, she may have been trying to draw your attention to the fact that she's your alpha female, SHE was in heat first, and everyone else should be subordinate in the pack.  So by appearing dominant to your other in-season female she was simply stating she was still lead dog.

 Same thing will happen if you pay more attention to a new female -- your more dominant dogs will object.

Remember -- she doesn't understand WHY the younger female was crated -- they draw their conclusions based on what happens next or what usually happens in THAT scenario.

Dogs are SO in tune with scent -- to think that the 2d dog didn't recognize the scent of a dog she lives with?  I think that's pretty unlikely.

Being that I am famaliar with Pit Bull characteristics that would actually tell me that it doesn't matter if a dog is intact or not. Since altered dogs have the same behavior towards other dogs at times. Maybe you have a good theory with the situation though. Something to consider. I understand about the scent memories.

What do you mean what happens when they are crated downstairs. They don't get any sort of extra or special treatment really. She got treated the same in her heat except she was out of the crate more (most the time) because she won't rip off the panties like this young female will, its a battle with her. Do you think though that a dog would remember how they were treated on their heat vs another? Serious question because I've seen debate on what or how dogs remember. You seem to have a good bit of knowledge on some of this stuff. She isn't the alpha female, maybe she thinks (or pretty much is) above this other young female who is on the submissive side, thats highly possible and would make sense. Since the other female is in heat she could have had that brief issue with her, letting her know she's above her.

I know what you are saying about dominant dogs getting upset or "jealous" about other dogs.

AuroraLove

Spicy_Bulldog

 

 I think they did ask politely no doubt, but I didn't see the relevance to the situation is all. That is why I said that, sorry if I seemed offended because I really wasn't.

Therefore "laying down the law" won't do any good with me.

.

Wow, sorry to see that this got out of hand. I wasnt aware of your experience with having intact females together and THAT was the relevance of why I asked. Two females can be a handful and not for the average owner, let alone with our beloved breed so I apoligize for trying to cover all my bases. Hope everything works out for you.

 

 Sorry you must have posted while I was typing. It is no problem, I've seen your other post and I know they are not meant to be rude towards others. Thank you for letting me know the reason why you asked the question though. Everything is pretty normal around here except I finally got tripped down the steps today, that was not fun but luckily I wasn't hurt.