How do I tell him?

    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: sharismom
    I agree with what many have said, but I do understand that you are young and *think* you know what you are doing.  You will do as you wish, as many of us did at the same age, even though we are here 20 years later telling you these are the red flags we see.  Please proceed with caution.

    Take care of yourself.


    Can I cross-stitch this and put it on a pillow for my daughters? Then I could throw it at them every time they do something I think they shouldn't in the future![:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Xeph -- sorry, I'm late to this ... and I dated, fell in love with my David online AFTER my divorce (insert picture of 42 year old woman in major emotional trauma after she got rid of completely worthless, abusive husband).
     
    I'll be honest -- I literally turned to the net to 'get my head straight'-- I realized my biggest mistake when I married my first husband was to walk torn & bleeding into THAT relationship after some really horrific personal & work related problems and HE also was part of the walking-wounded - and two damaged people may prop each other up but they aren't often healthy for each other. 
     
    However, long story short my ex IS a creep -- he's now on SSI for 'emotional problems' (and trust me, the government does NOT give that away -- you have to be pretty disturbed to get that award) and I just plain wanted a life.
     
    So while I had some fun I also listened ... a lot.  A WHOLE lot.  I've heard just about all the stories -- a lot of the ones some of the folks above aluded to.  Frankly, I've seen it all -- from gays playing straight to straights playing gay, to people just plain getting kicks out of breaking up 'real' relationships and even ... murder. 
     
    I'll be honest -- the ONE thing ... the absolute ONE thing that makes me cringe here is "5 years".  Because even if your relationship 'changed' along the line -- IF IF IF either one of you has the desire to go thru what you *must* go thru to make ANY relationship work in real life, then it's not a strong enough desire or you would have moved heaven, hell and earth BEFORE THIS to have been together.
     
    Xeph -- I'm not doubting you love him ... nor am I doubting he loves you.  However ... given what you've said about your family and the 'stuff' you deal with that simply means in order to embark *successfully* on a permanent, lasting, satisfying, REAL relationship (as in face to face) then that desire to be together has to be SO all consuming that nothing else will satisfy.
     
    Because honestly ... if the cyber thing is "enough" (altho maybe not quite 'enough' but 'sufficient') then the incredible work, blood, sweat, tears, and SACRIFICE that goes into making a life with someone ... long after the ardor cools, long after the fun is over, long after the "plans for your life" pan out or don't -- you've still got to make the choices day after day after day ... to do what's best for both of you together.
     
    March 8th David and I will celebrate our 10th anniversary.  We had one 'year' of him being there (the UK) and me being here (Florida) altho we 'met' several times and travelled extensively during that time so we had lots of 'real' time together.
     
    We always said to each other the odds were so astronomically against us being 'together' it was almost a joke.  He had a house there, I had one here (and two dogs that couldn't live thru 'quarantine' for me to move there), and I had no job (I temped for a long time at that time) and the odds and ends to sort out (far far beyond what I can say here) were huge. 
     
    But bottom line -- the thing that made it work was the absolutely complete desire to be WITH each other.  Nothing else would do.  Once he'd been over here and we'd 'met' and travelled together ... when he went home to the UK (cos his visa expired) I was physically ill. 
     
    You've heard all the old love story rah rah about how "I just can't EAT, I can't SLEEP ..." blah blah. 
     
    But honestly -- it tends to be true.  Because unless the two of you are SO in love and SO incredibly committed to each other, then you fall victim to just life's rocky pitfalls -- and yeah dysfunctional families to boot.  (trust me -- my mother can beat your mother for idiocy and I can still, at the age of 52, almost throw up because she makes me so upset 2000 miles away *sigh*).
     
    5 years of 'making do' and establishing quite a long term pattern of using each other to satisfy each other for the lack in your lives -- that's going to be TOUGH to translate to real life. 
     
    Yes, you may well be completely in love with each other -- but you haven't been for 5 years or you would never have been able to live that way. 
     
    I'm not trying to make you defensive -- just trying to help you think it thru -- because in honesty, you two have made it HARDER by waiting for so long.  You pacify each other with your friendship and your caring and the other needs you satisfying in each other JUST ENOUGH so that it was harder than it should have been to make the next step.
     
    Case in point -- my sister-in-law has 'dated' the same guy for about 12 years.  He's a "professional student" -- and has gone all the way thru his doctorate and beyond with grant after grant (and he's European) and she's an extremely successful professional (she's a statistician with a company that works with the Common Market).  Both of them are ... essentially ... Brainiacs (sorry that's a 60's term -- think 'computer brain').
     
    She has absolutely NO desire to 'marry' or be with him on more than an occasional basis.  They meet for "weekends" every month or two, they both get what they want ... and part happily -- he's been there for her thru deaths in the family and all sorts of things, but there's never going to be a "happily ever after" because, frankly, both of them are happy (or mostly so) with things the way they are.  She'd rather not have to fall over him and get annoyed with him and his bad habits on a day by day basis -- and she doesn't have to worry about sharing a bank account with him.  It's too "convenient" to change.
     
    Do they love each other?  Yeah, I think they truly do.  But they also suit each other's purposes. 
     
    I think that's honest.  And I respect the fact that they have realized this and met it head on between the two of them and they keep the whole thing relatively at arm's length where it suits them.  You've heard the expression "If it ain't broke why fix it?"
     
    In the course of FIVE years you two have built a relationship that is probably really deep ... but to be completely honest ... the chances of it surviving "real life" is slim. 
     
    Now I"m living proof that 'slim to none' can sometimes be overcome -- but Xeph -- just be realistic about it.  You and he BOTH have to answer to yourselves individually AND to each other the basic question "If we both care THIS much about each other ... then why the heck are we still on opposite ends of microphones five years later.  And why have we never taken the small tiny 'steps' of stuff like talking on the phone, writing letters (Xeph you ain't gotta clue what you're missing -- seeing the words "I love you" on a piece of paper ****in his handwriting***, and knowing he addressed the envelope and touched the stamp on it -- it's plainly a rush quite aside from seeing text on the screen and I"m NOT downplaying how incredibly awesomely powerful the typed word is).
     
    Point blank -- don't tell him you 'love him' or meet him unless you are completely 100% aware that it's never ever gonna be the same ever again.  It will be different.  YOU will be different.
     
    Are you ready for that?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Can I cross-stitch this and put it on a pillow for my daughters? Then I could throw it at them every time they do something I think they shouldn't in the future![:D]

     
    Oh Michelle, I wish it were that simple! [8D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I remember reading somewhere, sometime...I can't remember all of the verbiage but:
     
    "Teenagers, move out and support yourself while you still know everything."
    • Gold Top Dog
     Actually Callie, I don't feel defensive after reading your posts.  Reading the others?  Yes.  But yours makes sense to me.
     
    I know what I want, I know most of what he is, and a lot of what he isn't.  I am admittedly, a hard person to satisfy emotionally, because I've been through crap, and I tend to be a bit clingy.  I don't feel the need to be clingy with Adam, just near him, and, surprisingly, not constantly.
     
    I know things will change... I WANT them to change.  I know what it's like not being able to eat, sleep, THINK.  Do I think I could make a real relationship work?  I honestly don't know.  I am, admittedly, the complete opposite of what he usually goes for, which causes me to be a bit more wary than I'm sure many of you think I'm being.
     
    I'd practically sell my soul just to spend a day with him, just talking, sitting with him...listening to him breathe.  When I started talking with him, I wanted nothing more than just somebody to screw around with.  That's it.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I don't know when I was kicked in the head with this "Holy crap is he ever awesome" thing...I just know that I was.  I know that it wasn't immediate...the first 2 or 3 years were pretty casual.  We did our thing and parted ways.
     
    Now I'm all kinds of things, with the possessive form of "His" in front of it.  His kitten primarily.  Never ever in my life did I think that Adam would me his anything!  Nor did I think he'd be calling me darling, or love.  I also didn't think I'd ever be able to call him amor, Oso, sweetheart...any of those things.
     
    I've talked to him on the phone before...many times. I have his number, he has mine...I just don't like phones.  Never have.  Not to mention mine sucks so bad I end up hearing my voice instead of his :-p  Lots of the things that haven't been done are because of me not him.  There are a lot of things about myself that I really don't like.
     
    I don't like that my handwriting looks less than feminine (Yes...it does), I don't like my voice, I don't like how I look...hell I don't even like how I TALK (I've got such a midwestern accent...and the fact that people make fun of how I talk certainly doesn't help), even though he tells me all the time it's endearing, adorable, and cute.
     
    I can indulge in things with him that I can't with other men...and they are things I know I'd do if I were presented the opportunity.  I've been presented with a few openings with others, and I don't take them...too afraid to.
     
    When I see him...I'll be absolutely terrified, I know that much, it's unavoidable.  But I also know I'll feel better that I was able to sate my need and desire to be with him for that one day.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Callie, you are wise beyond your considerable years.  [;)]
     
    I have a hunch that what she will find is that he doesn't feel the same way about her as she feels about him.  Ultimately though, that may be a good thing.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm still here Billy[8D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Xeph
    I'm still here Billy[8D]

     
    I know.  I never thought you might not read the comment.  [;)]
     
    All I will add is, if you have never been rejected, you aren't taking enough risks.
     
    I am not necessarily trying to dissuade you from meeting the guy.  You are a big girl.  You pays your money and you takes your chances.  You make your decision and you live with the consequences.
     
    What I will also say, and I will admit that I am judging you here, perhaps unfairly, but judgement it is, is that it is patently unfair to the man you are in a relationship with to be carrying on behind his back this way.  You claim he knows everything you do with your "friend."  Well, maybe he does and maybe he doesn't.  Only you know for sure.  But I'll bet he doesn't know what you have shared with us in this thread and that, IMHO, isn't right.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have no advice, I did everything I was warned against doing when I was your age.   I would defintiely have gone to NY to meet him as well.   I guess I do have some advice - be safe.  Really, seriously - have him meet you in the city for the first meeting.  You may be absolutely on point with everything you believe about him - but just please confirm that in NYC, have him come to you (an hour into the burbs could be some serious middle-of-nowhere!) . 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Unfortunately ... speaking from experience (and I think I've said this before) chances are he DOES know.  But it's why ... it has to be ... things aren't going well in real life because you can't have a true committed relationship with someone that is, in 80's vernacular "open" (meaning you really aren't enough for me and you *know* there's a part of myself you ain't gonna share so get over it).  Otherwise it's just plain kicks.  And you can be friends with someone you get kicks from ... but it's a friendship with boundaries.
     
    Because longevity in a relationship is developed thru the pain ... and sometimes the 'pain' and crap going on kills the relationship and sometimes people just don't 'meet in the middle' any more and they don't care *enough* to make sure they 'meet' AND find personal fulfillment.  You can grow 'apart' or you can just stay the same or you can grow closer.  The closer part has a huge price that you pay virtually every day balancing 'me' with 'him/her'.  But the price should not be counted.  If you 'count' it you're losing it. 
     
    Then just plain ditch it.  I stayed married 8 years too long because I felt some responsibility to my first husband and all time does is make it harder to make the change.  That's why, Xeph, this is gonna be so incredibly hard.  Time is not on your side here -- but it will only work if both of you are determined. 
     
    Honestly, you've got your life on permanent hold here -- you can't progress in any area of your life until you resolve this.  Either get on with it and enjoy life and each other (and quite wasting time staying safely in your rooms) or end it so you CAN find real happiness with one person.  Cos straddling the fence (between two men neither of whom get your all) won't work.  Slivers suck. 
     
    As long as you have the one to 'fall back on' and fulfill your needs emotionally as a person you aren't in a place to HAVE to find that with someone "who lives close to you". 
     
    I patently wasted 10 years of my life "being friends" with my husband -- it wasn't a marriage.  It was emotional abuse, but I let it happen.  But it made me who I am today -- I wouldn't be 25 again for all the world.  Too vulnerable, too hard to 'do' what I really wanted to do, too many "you can't DO that"s in the way and I bought it all. 
     
    Do it Xeph -- decide what YOU want, and risk it.  Not risking is a mistake.  Nothing good comes easily or without a price. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    All I will add is, if you have never been rejected, you aren't taking enough risks.


    I have...a lot more than I wish to be.  It's one of the reasons I'm very bad in social situations.  I wait for everybody else to move first, because that way I can avoid rejection.  I don't call people, save the bf to tell him when I'm coming over, or for pizza.  Rejection sends me into this emotional tailspin which lands me in this big emotional crater, and it can literally take me MONTHS to dig out of it.

    I feel incredibly hurt when the bf tells me to "Not be so loud."  So, because I take it as a sort of rejection, I just shut up, and don't speak for hours.  I fidget and fuss over things like lint on a jacket, or I groom the dog.  Things I can do in silence so that I'm "not so loud".

    Do I have acquaintances?  Yes.  Sometimes I call them friends, but I really don't put myself in social situations if I have to make the first move.  Today I talked to Adam about seeing him this summer.  He....said yes.  First I was elated...and after 30 seconds of elation....I went and threw up.  I know I want to see him, and to know that he really DOES want to see me too...it's a good feeling (very very).  It also scares the sh!t out of me.

    One of the reasons I'm going to NY this summer, is to see my friend Kia.  She said she'd go with me and we could all meet in the city, and I could hang out with Adam and she could go do her thing.  And you guys are right...I'm young, and stupid, which is probably the only reason I'm doing it at all.  I'm 21...his 20th birthday is next week (he still hasn't told me what he wants :-p)

    I have had one boyfriend ever in my life...and it's the one I'm currently involved with.  Adam has been with his fair share...another thing that terrifies me.  The constant worry that I'm going to be compared to these girls (who were all reasonably thin, and blonde/brunette....I am the complete opposite).  I worry that I won't meet up to what HE wants, rather than him not measuring up to what I want.

    I do realize that I could hate his guts and never want to see or talk to him ever again...though it's probably more likely that our curiosities will finally be sated.  Obviously I'm not good with relationships in general, since I push people away more than let them in (that's why I have dogs...non judgemental), because I'm more comfortable keeping them an arm's length away.

    Double edged sword...keep them away, and be emotionally distant and lonely..let them in and worry about them hurting me something awful.

    ETA:

    Adam wouldn't be the first online person I've met.  I've done it before, know the "in's and out's" of it as it were.  I'm always careful.  The only thing that makes me exceptionally nervous, is that this is going to be the first time that Strauss stays home.  Every other time he's gone with me (safety net type thing, a little extra "insurance").  I've never left him behind before.
    • Gold Top Dog
    One of the reasons I'm going to NY this summer, is to see my friend Kia.  She said she'd go with me and we could all meet in the city, and I could hang out with Adam and she could go do her thing.  And you guys are right...I'm young, and stupid, which is probably the only reason I'm doing it at all.  I'm 21...his 20th birthday is next week (he still hasn't told me what he wants :-p)

     
    You can't get to "old and smart" without going through "young and stupid", there simply is NO detour!    Just tell me where you're meeting ;) so I can report back to everyone here that you're fine!  (maybe even post a picture)  lol
    • Gold Top Dog
    Double edged sword...keep them away, and be emotionally distant and lonely..let them in and worry about them hurting me something awful.

     
    There is a whole ocean of area in between those two extremes.
     
    If you aren't willing to risk being hurt, (which isn't permanent, by the way) it is no wonder you are stuck in a relationship that doesn't provide for your needs. 
     
    One thing that concerns me is that you are still with your first boyfriend, after like a year and a half, I think you said.  Now you are madly in love with someone you, for all practical purposes, only know over the computer.  You have no real basis for comparison, but yet, here you go again, with that freakin' "love" thing.  You have few social skills and you are terrified, to the point of being paralyzed, over the prospect of being rejected.  Do you see the problem?
     
    You are young.  Too young to be feeling lost.  Expand your horizons.  Give up on the idea of being in love, for now, and experience life.  Have fun!!!  Don't compromise your values in the process but gain experience enough to be able to identify when you do finally meet someone worth falling in love with.  In other words, get out of your room and off the computer.  Get some friends.  Meet some young men.  Even do a few, if you want.  You don't HAVE to be in love.  Break a few hearts and have your heart broken a few times.  You will get over it and it will make you more complete.  Trust me, there are far worse things than being alone.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: probe1957

    Double edged sword...keep them away, and be emotionally distant and lonely..let them in and worry about them hurting me something awful.


    There is a whole ocean of area in between those two extremes.

    If you aren't willing to risk being hurt, (which isn't permanent, by the way) it is no wonder you are stuck in a relationship that doesn't provide for your needs. 

    One thing that concerns me is that you are still with your first boyfriend, after like a year and a half, I think you said.  Now you are madly in love with someone you, for all practical purposes, only know over the computer.  You have no real basis for comparison, but yet, here you go again, with that freakin' "love" thing.  You have few social skills and you are terrified, to the point of being paralyzed, over the prospect of being rejected.  Do you see the problem?

    You are young.  Too young to be feeling lost.  Expand your horizons.  Give up on the idea of being in love, for now, and experience life.  Have fun!!!  Don't compromise your values in the process but gain experience enough to be able to identify when you do finally meet someone worth falling in love with.  In other words, get out of your room and off the computer.  Get some friends.  Meet some young men.  Even do a few, if you want.  You don't HAVE to be in love.  Break a few hearts and have your heart broken a few times.  You will get over it and it will make you more complete.  Trust me, there are far worse things than being alone.

     
    [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif][sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif]
    • Gold Top Dog
    There are a lot of things about myself that I really don't like.

     
    I think this statement speaks volumes.  It made me really sit up and take notice of the list you made of all the things you don't like about yourself.  That's disturbing to me.  I believe in the old addage, how can you love someone else when you don't even love yourself?
     
    Is there anything wrong with meeting someone on neutral ground that you've never met in person before?  No.  As someone else mentioned....proceed with caution.
     
    I agree with Billy in that getting out of the house, out of a bad relationship and off the computer will benefit you more.  Get a great circle of friends and experience things a young 20ish woman should be doing.  You've had one bf in life and have so much more to experience.