Dominance Makes You Dumb

    • Bronze

    Dominance Makes You Dumb

    I specially like the part that reads "This kind of dominance is a prism that makes some people see their relationship with their dogs as an ongoing struggle for supremacy. It anthropomorphizes dogs in the worst possible way because it overlays a uniquely human perspective onto a dog's mind and then punishes him for it."  You see this on TV all the time.  The uninformed tv trainer will say "the dog is trying to take over" and the punishes the dog for something he projects on the dog.

    How Dominance Can Make You Dumb

    September 22nd, 2009 by Eric Goebelbecker

    "Words are all we have, really. We have thoughts but thoughts are fluid. then we assign a word to a thought and we're stuck with that word for that thought, so be careful with words." - George Carlin

    Generally speaking I don't like quibbling over words. I tend to agree with Dr. Dunbar - stop talking and start training. But staying away from the word "dominance" and its variations when you are a dog trainer is almost as difficult as staying away from the Yankees when you live in the NYC area. It's so frustrating that it leads me to be, as Tom Cruise would put it, glib. Glib enough that I recently twitted (twittered? tweeted? chirped? belched?) "Dominance makes you dumb." First, there's what's on TV. Enough said. Then there's the clients (many of whom watch TV.) If a dog is displaying any sort of disobedient or disruptive behavior there's at least a 50% chance that she will be labeled as "dominant" when I am called. (There's also a 25% chance that she has "separation anxiety," but that's another rant.) This 50% only goes up if the dog is male, if the person contacting me is male, or if the dog is about 8 - 18 months old.

    And of course there's the Internet. I'm pretty sure that at this point there are more websites dedicated to debunking dominance theory than there are espousing it. There's certainly enough e-mail traffic discussing it, probably more than enough. In the old days when we called each other names on Usenet (as opposed to calling each other names on Yahoo groups like we do now) there was an unofficial rule that any thread mentioning "Hitler" or "Nazi" immediately be shut down by the moderator or at least abandoned by the users. I've considered suggesting this for threads that mention "dominance" if for no other reason than just to avoid the inevitable flood of "harrumphs," but a lot of these people don't share my sense of humor.

    Generally speaking, "Dominance" is used one of two ways when referring to dogs:

    In one context, it's used to indicate a relationship where an individual has priority access to resources. It defines a position in a relationship, similar to the way the word is used in everyday language: "The Yankees are dominant in their division (ugh.)" or "Sales of the Prius dominated the fourth quarter." This kind of dominance is very real. It exists in many groups of different species of animals as a way to avoid (or at least quickly resolve) aggression. Aggression is really, really, expensive and evolutionary pressure tends to try to avoid it when possible. (I haven't quite figured out what the problem is with Homo sapiens though. Probably video games or high-fructose corn syrup.)

    I like to call this the "reality-based" context.

    In the other context, let's call it "fantasy-based," dominance is, as Dr. Sophia Yin so wonderfully put it, a personality trait. It describes a dog that is well, hell bent on domination. (S)he requires constant reminders that you are in charge, the "pack leader."

    Check out an excerpt from this masterpieceNo

    Well, not any more than the 100 other subtle things you must do to communicate that you are the pack leader. I always stress to new dog owners that the more things you're doing to reinforce that you are the pack leader for your dog, will make your dog view you as the pack leader, faster.

    This is the dominance that makes you dumb. It makes you fret over who goes through doors first and who walks in front of who on the street. It makes otherwise intelligent people spit in kibble before they let their dogs eat it. This kind of dominance is a prism that makes some people see their relationship with their dogs as an ongoing struggle for supremacy. It anthropomorphizes dogs in the worst possible way because it overlays a uniquely human perspective onto a dog's mind and then punishes him for it.

    I wish I could ignore it, but I since I encounter it with my clients, it's a fact of life. I have to be ready to skillfully and genially interrupt and redirect. Fortunately, more often than not simply showing what can be accomplished without any force or intimidation goes a long way.

    http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/how-dominance-can-make-you-dumb

    • Gold Top Dog

     All I can say is I hope you continue to hang around here, and fasten your seat belt - sometimes it's a bumpy ride...Big Smile

    I took the liberty of making this an active link:

    http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/how-dominance-can-make-you-dumb

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     I like it. Big Smile

    It sums up my thoughts on it very well. I keep trying to avoid dominance because of that very dichotomy. I tried for a while pretending it doesn't exist at all, but eventually had to admit that there are times when dominance is an appropriate word to describe what a dog is doing. So now I swing from pretending it doesn't exist to talking about the "real" dominance with people that are also talking about "real" dominance to pointing out that a dog that is growling at someone because they don't like their space invaded is not a dog behaving dominantly.

    It is a minefield. 

    • Puppy

    IMO dominance is often confused and very much over used when it comes to dog training. But I would never say it doesn't exist. More than anything I think dogs are opportunists, they will do what they think will work for them, and sometimes this includes being 'dominant'.

    The relationship I aim to have with my dogs is one built on trust and respect not 'dominance' or submission.

    • Gold Top Dog

    corvus
    I tried for a while pretending it doesn't exist at all, but eventually had to admit that there are times when dominance is an appropriate word to describe what a dog is doing.

     

    I guess that for simplicity's sake, i suggest that if dominance is a real factor in your relationship with your dog then you are really missing out on a heap. It is generally our viewpoint  that is probably wrong.

    My relationship is based on finding out what makes my dogs go, and using that to get behaviours that i want so our needs are convergent.

    Dogs are amazingly different in what makes them tick. For example my two poodles are related. My older girl does at times like her food, but she loves a long, fairly gentle tug game or a chase the toy on the end of the string very much. she goes troppo (brain absent, needs time to cool before working) on both of these. She loves investigating, is highly social, and is a huge latent learner. Social contact is a huge reward, she has a list of favourite people and dogs.

    My younger boy loves rough and tumble play, all that you can dish up, but he is still cognitive. It is a great tool to teach and motivate with. He has learned to love food too. His is mildly social and i am actively encouraging him to investigate away from me. He is very centered on me. This property bounces badly on you unless modified a bit, as you move much past basic obedience . Now is a good time.

    The only way that dominance enters all of this, is that about once a month, Sam gives Luci a belting for overstepping the mark. He is way stronger than her, but doesn't really push it most of the other times.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Every now and then I see a dog go stand over another and stare at them when they have something good, even though that dog doesn't really want it. It's like it's saying "I could so take that if I wanted to." Or one time Kivi got caught in a game with a boisterous bull terrier who kept slamming him into the ground as soon as he got to his feet. She was doing it deliberately because she could. She'd wait until he got a couple of steps of momentum behind him and then slam him and down he'd go. When he finally decided he didn't like this game after all she sat on him and growled at him. I had to go rescue the lad. As far as dogs and humans go, though, I've never seen anything I'd consider dominance from dogs. Like I said once before, it wouldn't change how I handled my dogs if I did decide they were being dominant. I still reward the good and ignore the bad.