Walking problem...also pack leader problem?

Most dogs pull simply because heeling alongside a human at the human's (slow) pace is not at all natural for a dog.  What type of training have you done/are you doing?

As far as comfortable leashes, I suggest ASAT (also known as beeta, biothane, and synthetic leather).  I do protection work with dogs so I know alllll about pulling and leash burn.  ASAT is the most comfortable leash material I've ever used.  I've stopped using quality leather altogether and now use ASAT for everything (tracking, protection, obedience, walking my dogs...).

There are various training devices you can try to help with pulling, such as the Gentle Leader head halter, the Easy Walk harness, or the prong collar.  However I use a trick that can be done with a regular leash, and it stops my dog from pulling better than any of these training devices.  Basically, I run the leash along his back, then drape it over his left side back toward his flank, run it under the belly, and loop it on the top right side as if I were tying my dog inside the knot.  I can take a picture if you want.  I saw tons of people doing this at a Dock Diving event (because for safety the dogs are only allowed to wear a regular collar, but often pull really bad b/c they are so excited about the competition) and gave it a try, it really works.

The main thing with any of these options is to see it as temporary, they are training tools and shouldn't become a crutch or replacement for actually training the dog, just something to maintain control so you can begin rewarding the dog for the correct loose leash walking.

 When I take them out seperately, I use the heel command, and when they do heel I release the pressure on the leash. They wear only regular collars, sometimes a harness, but I loop the leash around the neck to make it shorter and give me more control. and of course when one gets ahead of me by one step they start competing for who will be just one inch ahead. I also say "right here" to get their attention, make them focus on me instead of whatever they see atm. I've tried magnet, like with a treat, to keep them there beside me but they are not as food-oriented when we are outside our home. I also say JOG so they can run at  my slow pace for a few minutes, which works for a few seconds but when they start feeling the run, they take off and my legs start moving too fast for me...lol I have a hard time putting on the breaks

I do want to learn a complete fix, I know this is just temporary, but how can you teach them loose leash walking? I am pretty consistent with the few things that I do, but they don't seem to be working. The worst part is, that I have 2 very young, strong, heathy dogs. very energetic!! so the pull is harder, the walks are longer, and the food costs more...lol So I need something that is tried and true, and I will try different methods til i find the one that works for us. Since my hubby is in Iraq, I have plenty of time to work with them, just a little short on funds. lol

thanks for your help:)

Having an Alaskan Malamute myself i know everything about dogs bred to pull. I also walk my dog next to me, not so much for the "pack leader" issue but for "leash manners", this way my dog can actually see when i start moving so he can start moving with me and not "i pull and you move".

Dogs can walk at the same speed as the human and actually it's even better because the mental exercise of keeping the same speed as the human teaches them self control and helps them to be patient and wait.

You dont need a special leash, the fact that they are seated DOES NOT mean they are calm, they very well could be saying "ok my but is on the floor OPEN THE DOOR NOW!!!"

Once they stop looking at the door and look away, thats a sign that the fixation on going out is lower THEN you can proceed to the next step and repeat

Make sure that the collar is ALWAYS at the top of the neck (not to inflict more "pain" like some ignorants out there think) but because this way they can not help themselves with the shoulders, pulling with the throat is not fun. They might start making noises because of it but is because they never "pulled" with the throat and they WILL give up after they realize is not working as before.

I helped my brother's 5 dogs to walk this way 3 weeks ago, all of them pullers, didnt take more than 10 minutes to any of them to be walking next to us

Finally i recommend to but a backpack for your dogs, they switch into "work mode" and they burn more energy this way.   

 This is a good idea chuck, I do use it on my female, it is hard to use the top of the collar on my male because he keeps his head down when walking, I want to get this collar when I get enough money, it seems helpful.

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/products/i-collar.php

I may look for a cheaper version , and this leash seems like it will help the leash burn on my hands, what do you guys think?

http://cmconceptsllc.com/index.html

I do try to research purchases,(i did research my dogs) and I am doing pretty well handling it. Since I don't have kids, or a job, or a husband atm...lol I have a little more time. But the intelligence is sometimes ruled out by their running is fun mentality, although I must say, they are not robot types, but off leash they come in my general direction wherever I go, they keep a distant eye on me, dog park, woods, wherever we happen to be. And when I use my special whistle or call them they come...98% of the time of course, they are huskies and they have very selective hearing(you know what I am talking about if you own one!)

thanks for the help

 oops, not chuck...lol espencer I was reading the dogs name..:) im weird. but the backpack is also a good idea I am trying to look on ebay for one that is cheaper...money sucks!

TotemandMaya

 how can you teach them loose leash walking?

A simple way without any special tools, backpacks, or placement of the collar is simply to "be a tree".  This method involves time and consistency.  Basically anytime the dog is not doing what you want (pulling, not paying attention...), you simple STOP walking, or even take a few steps backwards.  So far the dog has pulled and basically been rewarded b/c you keep going.  Now you need to reward what you do want - nice heeling, and the reward is that you move forward so the dog is allowed to continue forward.  The first time you do this, you may spend an hour going only half a block.  It's frustrating at first but the pulling has to stop otherwise the dog is just getting mixed signals if he is allowed to sometimes pull and keep walking.  Have treats or toys or whatever your dog likes, so when he is doing it right you can praise him and give rewards.  Basically you want to train the dog to be in tune enough with you so that he notices when you stop or change direction.  He doesn't have to have a perfect heel, and we're not saying he can't be a few step ahead of you or not sniff around, but *you* dictate where to go and the dog needs to respect that otherwise he does not move forward.

 Got it...I will try this, I think I will do them seperately a few times, and then together. ugh, they are wearing out my shoes!! lol

I absolutely agree that the dogs are too darned focused on the door.  I don't get hung up on who exits first, but I do insist on a calm and well behaved exit.  I have no desire to be bowled over by any on of my six german shepherds.

Being an ignorant, I strongly disagree with putting the collar up high on the neck.  I don't feel thats an effective deterent, and I guess since you do that with your female, you've seen first hand that it's not working great for you.

Quite honestly I find the BEST way to train a dog to loose leash walking is to put him/her on a long line.  Even the most determined puller is going to realize that hey!  I'm not getting strangled here...what's going on?  That being off balance, helps YOU to take advantage of the relative confusion and talk up a storm to the dogs.  They're going to make sure that they aren't too far away to hear, especially if they never know when you're going to offer something really good, or turn around and head the other way.  It might be best for you to work one on one with them for a bit, until you are more confident in their obedience.

Dogs really do want to please us.  Sometimes though, we don't make it clear enough what we want from them.  Consistency is really important......being "pretty" consistent is like being "pretty" faithful to your mate.  That's not too likely to cut it either.

I don't like or agree with many of the methods that CM employs, but my biggest complaint with him is that he makes things look too easy and folks at home get frustrated when they "do the exact same thing" and it doesn't work.

Professional training is ALWAYS a good idea.  At the very least, check for loose leash walking classes.....PetsMart sometimes offers a one hour session for a nominal fee.  The trainer will work on helping you learn how to teach your dogs most effectively.

 thanks glenda:)

TotemandMaya

 Got it...I will try this, I think I will do them seperately a few times, and then together. ugh, they are wearing out my shoes!! lol

Yep definitely separately, otherwise if one gets it, s/he will be held back.  I walk my three dogs together but only just started doing this this summer.  Before that, I walked the two adults separate from the puppy b/c the puppy was not as good in his training.  I want everyone on the same page if I'm taking them all out alone.

TotemandMaya

 Ok so here is the main problem. The leash hurts my hands! I am tired of getting to a point where I can not finish the walk because my huskies are pulling. According to my husband, "that is just what they do"

Well, as the owner of a Siberian who always walks nicely on a loose leash I can guarantee you it's not 'just what they do'. You can absolutely get a Siberian walking on a loose leash. 

Dogs pull because we've taught them that's how they get to where they want to go. To get a dog walking on a loose leash, you need to teach the dog that pulling is going to get them no where and that walking on a loose leash is far more successful.

Be like a tree can be a good method, I use the change of direction technique myself. Every time the dog pulls, and the leash goes tight, turn quickly on your heel and walk in the opposite direction. Reward the dog when he walks beside you, to reinforce the position you want him to walk in. Every time he pulls, quickly do a 180 degree turn and change direction. A smart dog (and Siberians are definitely smart ;)) will learn quickly that pulling on the leash gets them no where, but walking nicely on a loose leash will work well, and will be rewarding too.

I walk my Siberian on a martingale (limited slip) collar as I find harnesses can give them more pulling power, but also because he can slip flat collars so it's a safety thing to have him on a martingale.

I've had mixed reactions to the martingale lead.  Tyler LOVES the martingale.  That's his working lead and when that lead is on, he's is GOLDEN.  He's fine on a regular lead, but with a regular one, he'll sniff and just do dog stuff.  But once that martingale lead goes on, he is all business.  With the others, they are ot impressed.  Two of them slide right out of the martingale lead.

One thought I did have is maybe teaching them to pull at the appropriate times?  As in, get them harnesses and actually TEACH them to pull.  In that way, they get the chance to pull, which they were bred for, but the default behavior on a flat collar should be to walk nicely.  One of our members has a husky mix and I believe even has a little cart for Shadow.

I learned, quite by accident, that really TALKING to our dogs and telling them exactly what we expect works wonders.  Tyler for example was not even a year old when I took him for his first MS Walk.  We had a long talk about why we were walking, and how he needed to be extra special good because he had a really important job to do.  Tyler walked six miles, in huge crowds.  He was working so he walked.  Period.  He was rather aloof from the folks who tried to make friends with him, even when offered treats, never sniffed, never peed, never did anything but flat out walk. I had to insist that he take a drink when we stopped for a breather.  Now once we were finished and back at our starting point, Tyler scooted into some bushes to relieve himself, made friends with everyone who was interested and ate whatever was offered.  Wow.  Absolutely made me a believer that they understand massively more than we think they do!

glenmar

I've had mixed reactions to the martingale lead.  Tyler LOVES the martingale.  That's his working lead and when that lead is on, he's is GOLDEN.  He's fine on a regular lead, but with a regular one, he'll sniff and just do dog stuff.  But once that martingale lead goes on, he is all business.  With the others, they are ot impressed.  Two of them slide right out of the martingale lead.

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing here - I use martingale/limited slip collars, not leads. If they are fitted properly, it is impossible for a dog to pull out of them or have them slip over their heads. That's why I use them, because my Siberian can slip flat collars no matter how fitted they are.

 

One thought I did have is maybe teaching them to pull at the appropriate times?  As in, get them harnesses and actually TEACH them to pull.  In that way, they get the chance to pull, which they were bred for, but the default behavior on a flat collar should be to walk nicely.  One of our members has a husky mix and I believe even has a little cart for Shadow.

I know many people who put their Siberians in harness to work, that is do sled racing, but then still have dogs who walk nicely on a leash when they are out walking or in the show ring. The dogs learn the difference between being in harness and having their collars on for walks. The atmosphere at a sled day is also different, as are the command the handlers use.

I learned, quite by accident, that really TALKING to our dogs and telling them exactly what we expect works wonders.  Tyler for example was not even a year old when I took him for his first MS Walk.  We had a long talk about why we were walking, and how he needed to be extra special good because he had a really important job to do.  Tyler walked six miles, in huge crowds.  He was working so he walked.  Period.  He was rather aloof from the folks who tried to make friends with him, even when offered treats, never sniffed, never peed, never did anything but flat out walk. I had to insist that he take a drink when we stopped for a breather.  Now once we were finished and back at our starting point, Tyler scooted into some bushes to relieve himself, made friends with everyone who was interested and ate whatever was offered.  Wow.  Absolutely made me a believer that they understand massively more than we think they do!

I don't want to burst your bubble... but I don't think our dogs have a clue what we're talking about most of the time! LOL - they aren't people, and they don't understand English. My dogs walk nicely on the leash because I taught them to do so. I didn't ask them or talk to them about it, I trained them :) You can talk to the dog till the cows come home but I'm yet to meet a dog who was trained to walk nicely on leash because you talked to them about it. lol :P

Please don't misunderstand.  My dogs have all been trained for loose leash walking.  My point was that just as Tyler becomes a working dog when his "working" lead is applied, any dog can   learn the difference between collars/harnesses/leads and thus learn the appropriate behavior when s/he is wearing each.

I'm afraid that we'll have to agree to disagree on how much dogs understand.  I did not handle Tyler any differently than normal when we got to that event, but he KNEW he had to be a cut above the best behavior.  Just as he knew when we started working with elders at the assisted living/nursing facilities.  Without any formal trainng to begin with, just what "we talked about". 

I talk to my dogs a great deal, especially when we are out walking.  When I started training for off lead, I was using a 50 foot long line.  Off lead, and in mass (all six of them) they will still stop when they hit that distance from me and turn around to see what I want them to do.  And, the entire time we are out, their ears are swiveling to hear what I might be saying. That's not such a bad thing to have your dogs totally tuned in to you.