BAD girl!

    • Gold Top Dog

    BAD girl!

    hey all!  i know there is a similar post earlier on, but since my problem is with a large female pit bull, i thought i would post anyway....
     
    i have a male amstaff and a female pit bull, both altered.  they get along famously with each other, and my male is usually quite easy going with other dogs.  (there have been a few exceptions, usually intact males).  HOWEVER, the female is just incredibly aggressive toward female dogs.  it doesn't seem to matter size or spayed or breed.  just female.
     
    example:  today i was walking them where we always walk and i encountered an off leash dog.  the dog charged us initially, then stopped when i enforced a "sit-stay" command with my dogs and stepped in front of them.  the other dog began a slow, tail up approach that i took to be very aggressive, and she completely ignored both her owner and my attempts to get her attention.  she approached my male first, who stayed seated and sniffed politely.  i thought, "oh good, problem solved"  but when she went to sniff my female, my girl attacked immediately, causing a racous melee between all three.
     
    it seems to be mostly noise when she does this, and it's not the first time.  we keep her separated from my friend's female german short-hair because my girl beat her up once.
     
    any advice?  i can't stop off leash dogs from approaching, so what is the best tactic, without turning around and backing away????
    • Bronze
    In case you can't tell, I am not an expert but what I would do is yell

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    • Gold Top Dog
    Well it was good that your dog obeys when you tell him to sit, now that can be tricky, that can get you to what happened, if you just walk by without stopping maybe that would be better, just ignore the other dog, by stopping you are almost inviting the other dog to get closer, we dont even know if the other dog is also territorial and the longer you stay inside his territory the worse it will be, just keep walking, if a dog approaches you just change your dog to the other hand and thats it
     
    Dont give them the chance to "meet" strange dogs
    • Gold Top Dog
    This may be a situation where management is the best policy. Female-on-female aggression is like a force of nature - just hang on and try not to get swept off the bridge. Female BCs are infamous within the breed for being randomly and implacably intolerant of other females. [8|]

    You can try some behavior modification but as I say it's a little bit like sandbagging against a hurricane - there's only so much you can do.

    Good luck!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Honestly, I would say the best solution for that kind of situation is to get that harmless spray that you can squirt the strange dog with. Yes, you will end up with an enraged owner and a very unhappy dog,,,but once the dog gets withen leash range of your two dogs you could have a major fight on your hands where them and you would get hurt, so prevention is key. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have found with my female pit mix that it is best to keep on walking.  It is harder to focus on another dog that is loose and approaching while walking than while sitting.  You may want to think about walking your dogs seprately if you encounter loose dogs often.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Any or all of these:
    Don't hang around where there are off leash dogs. Get going the other way.  Dogs are less likely to get into it if there is no staring and there's lots of distance between them.

    Get Direct Stop, or any deterrent that is legal, and keep it with you.  Use it sooner rather than later, especially if you have a leash law on your side.  In some states, it's legal to shoot a dog that threatens a human, so the owner should feel lucky you only sprayed the dog.

    Muzzle your dog - not the best solution, given the current BSL climate, and the fact that your dog would then be defenseless against an attack that you couldn't stop.  But, after all, you are walking an aggressive dog in public - what if she tangles with another dog and that dog's human is injured trying to get them apart? 

    Walk her on a Gentle Leader (hooked back to the collar for safety, and with a second leash to the collar, if you feel more secure that way), so that you can keep your dog's attention on you, not on making eye contact with an approaching dog. 

    Walk your dogs separately.  The male is no problem, but he adds to the mix if something goes wrong.  It's harder to concentrate on extricating your female from trouble, or getting her out of the area quickly if you have another dog to contend with.

    • Gold Top Dog
    There is nothing wrong with sounding retreat.  When Sheba was soooo very reactive, I'd do a quick about face when I saw people OR dogs approaching.  My EYES are better than hers, about the only sense that is, and we'd just quickly wheel around or cross the street and I never stopped talking to her.    In time I could mention the dog or the person...."look at that NICE man talking his little girl for a walk, lets go this way so we don't scare them"  Now whether or not she understood what I was saying is open to debate, but NOW she can walk right past a person or a dog without a peep and I suspect part of that is because I put the focus on not scaring them and gave no creedence to HER being afraid.  Which she was, which is why she reacted as she did.  In this way too she learned to trust that I would NOT put her in a scarey situation and that if one turned up, I would remove her from it.  Trusting me meant she didn't NEED to be reactive, cuz Mom would take care of the scarey situation before it got scarey.  But, I think the key if you are going to do that, is to remain calm and low key about it.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ditto to all spiritdogs said..... while I can understand why you took that course of action, in hindsight I am sure you can see it made you and your dogs "sitting ducks" for the approaching dog.  Avoidance is the best policy IMO. 
     
    A muzzle is helpful because it can encourage owners to get their own dogs under control before they come and harass yours - they can see from a distance that there is a dog that is not friendly, keep away.  Not to mention who we know  would get the blame if there was an altercation. 
     
    Also ditto to glenmar..... don't make your dogs face out a scary situation, be pro-active in leading them away from it.  IMO this is one of the best ways you can communicate to a dog that you are in charge, you have recognised a potential threat and you're dealing with it competently and calmly.  If all else fails I always step between my dog and the approaching one (another powerful "leaderlike" gesture). 
    • Gold Top Dog
    i want to thank all of your for your advice.  it is true that i normally turn around and go the opposite direction when i come in contact with off leash dogs.  i guess my human attitude got the better of me that day, because i was just so annoyed at this guy who was so completely unable to control his dog at all.  if your dog isn't under voice control then it needs to be on a leash.
     
    is anyone else REALLY sick of having to change walk directions or schedules because not only do people refuse to follow "reasonable containment" or leash laws, but animal control refuses to enforce them?????
     
    this annoyance was exactly what was on my mind that day.  the "city" i live in has leash and containment laws, and yet no matter where i walk my dogs, i am constantly faced with this problem.  no matter how many calls to animal control i make, nothing changes.  at some point, it just becomes ridiculous to be turning around all the time.  it seems each time i think i've found a "safe" route, like the one we were using that day, something new happens and forces me to change my route again.
     
    and i used to walk my dogs separately for that exact reason, but i like to walk several miles for more than an hour per day, so you may understand that i don't really have 4 hours a day to devote to walks.  i'd really rather use that time to be playing ball in the yard.
     
    i do agree that it's my responsibility to diffuse situations before they start; that as their handler my dogs expect and need that from me, and that no matter who is following the law and who isn't, if someone gets hurt it's always going to be my fault.
     
    i must say,  though, that i absolutely refuse to muzzle my dogs.  the reactions i get to them is bad enough as it is, and i feel that muzzling them creates an air of danger that simply doesn't exist.  i must insist that if we pass humans or LEASHED dogs, there is absolutely no display of aggression by either dog.  it is for that reason that i refuse to punish my dogs for being born a breed that happens to scare the miseducated.
     
    i guess when i posted "bad girl", the bad girl was really me:)  thanks for your support and advice!!!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    is anyone else REALLY sick of having to change walk directions or schedules because not only do people refuse to follow "reasonable containment" or leash laws, but animal control refuses to enforce them?????

     
    Sheesh, tell me about it!  Just got to rise above it unfortunately. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I know exactly what you mean about off-leash dogs - makes me crazy.  Just the other day, I was running with Gandolf, my aggressive pooch, who was leashed to my waist (not necessarily the best of ideas, but keeps my arms free).  We were about 100 yards from the off-leash dog park when we encounter a big ol' lab dragging a leash.  Owner says "oh don't worry, he's friendly," yet with one stare from G., the lab starts growling, and not responding to the owner's increasingly frantic recall commands.  We kept going, G. did not growl, and eventually the lab was restrained by the clueless human. 
     
    I'm very close to buying the Direct Stop for these very situations.  I know it'll make humans angry, but it's better than having a huge big ol' bloody dogfight.  I've used water before, to either spray a kind of line of defense (works remarkedly well for a lot of dogs), or to spray the dog directly, but I think the Direct Stop works the best.
     
    Nonetheless, I KNOW how you feel and empathsize with you!
    • Gold Top Dog
    i've heard of Direct Stop but never seen it.  what exactly is it, and what does it do?  is there a potential for injury to the sprayed dog?  and has anyone ever actually used it for this specific application; that is with other dogs in the immediate area?  how would they be affected?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Direct Stop is a citronella spray...I've used it myself when my crazed cocker would go after the BIG dogs.....works well, isn't harmful, but they HATE the smell.
    • Gold Top Dog
    badrap,

    My suggestion (and all the others have great advice) to you, since I also own a female APBT, not only carry direct stop, carry pepper spray and a break stick if they aren't illegal in your area. They're not in mine, so I carry them. I also carry treats and a poop bag. My pockets are FULL on walks.

    I also suggest double collaring your dog. I, personally, double collar and attach a leash to BOTH collars, and then I also have her in a harness and I leash that as well. Pain in the butt??? You bet, but I KNOW that if my dog attacked another dog and the owner was NOT in sight (and even if they were), my dog would be blamed by breed alone for it.

    Also, I've stated on these forums before, if all else fails, tie your dogs by their leashes to the nearest fence with their faces up against the fence so they cannot fight back, but they won't need to because you'll either spray the loose dog, or get control of it (this is part of why I always have an extra collar and leash on me) somehow, leash it, and tie that dog to a fence. Then grab your dogs, head home and call AC. That's if the owners aren't in sight. if you cannot get control of the loose dog and direct stop isn't stopping the dog (which it won't if the dog is truly intent on attacking), kick the other dog and scream if all else fails.
    This, of course, is extreme. But I encounter quite a few loose dogs at times on my walks with Ella. I'm usually fortunate enough that a big stick is enough to get the dog to stop following us, but this is what I would have to do if redirection didn't work.

    Would I feel bad for pepper spraying another dog? Yes, but not as bad as I would feel if my dog got into a fight with it.