Yikes.......

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yikes.......

    We are in the process of redoing our fence in our yard.  The part of the fence on one side facing the street is a little over 5 ft and is a lattice fence.  Well, the dogs were out today and I happened to see Sally out the window.  A guy was walking his pit bull on the sidewalk in from of the fence and she was freaking out.  She was leaping straight up in the air, and when she couldn't jump the fence started trying to pull the lattice out with her paws.  She wasn't barking at all, her hair on her withers was standing on end, and she had a very forward posture.  I ran out in my socks and tried to get her to come to me but she completely ignored me.  I had to grab her to get her away from the fence, she was so focused.

    DH is fixing the fence immediately, but I'm not sure what to do from here.  It scares me that I couldn't break her focus.  She has been doing better around other dogs on walks, because we don't let her focus on them...

    I could use some help.  Should I get a behaviorist?  If so, how do I even find one?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yes, seek a behaviorist. Look one up online in your area.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sometimes is the other dog the one that instigates the bad behavior, a bad look, dominant pose, etc. Maybe your dog was just reacting to the "challenge" the pit bull was sending, you still need however work a little bit more with your dog's ability to ignore other dogs challenges, you need also to let  your dog know that kind of behavior is not allowed in your pack regardless who started the instigation, maybe it was only a tep back in her training and thats it
    • Gold Top Dog
    Tell me what area you're in, and I'll help you find one :)
    • Gold Top Dog
    Northwest Indiana/Chicagoland area.

    She was jumping at the fence before I even saw the other dog, so I think either the guy walked past her once and then walked back by her, or was on the other side of the street and crossed the street to walk by our fence.

    The guy walking the dog was grinning as I was running out there to get her under some sort of control.  I'm glad one of us was amused.[:@]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think most likely a behaviorist would recommend a desensitization program and training the dog to focus on you, which it sounds like you're already doing. A fenced yard is sort of a practicing ground for a territorial and/or dog aggressive dog... it's putting her in a situation that really exacerbates the problems she already has. That said, as a dog owner with a backyard I know how handy they can be. I think your best bets are to get that fence converted to a privacy fence right away so she can't see out, and if possible keep her out of the backyard until it's completed, meanwhile continuing your training.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: jones

    I think most likely a behaviorist would recommend a desensitization program and training the dog to focus on you, which it sounds like you're already doing. A fenced yard is sort of a practicing ground for a territorial and/or dog aggressive dog... it's putting her in a situation that really exacerbates the problems she already has. That said, as a dog owner with a backyard I know how handy they can be. I think your best bets are to get that fence converted to a privacy fence right away so she can't see out, and if possible keep her out of the backyard until it's completed, meanwhile continuing your training.


    I absolutely agree.  No sense letting her practice behavior that you don't want to have escalate.  Every time she does, it makes it that much harder for you to accomplish your goals.  And, a privacy fence makes it less inviting for people who enjoy "grinning". [:'(]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't know how close this is to you
     
    INDIANA:

    Melissa Shyan, Ph.D.
    Dept.of Psychology
    Butler University
    4600 Sunset Ave.
    Indianaoplis, IN 46208
    317-283-9848
    Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist from the Animal Behavior Society
     
    [linkhttp://www.iaabc.org/c_locator_dogs_nc.htm]http://www.iaabc.org/c_locator_dogs_nc.htm[/link]
     
    I hope this helps :( I wan't very successful
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: jones

    I think most likely a behaviorist would recommend a desensitization program and training the dog to focus on you, which it sounds like you're already doing. A fenced yard is sort of a practicing ground for a territorial and/or dog aggressive dog... it's putting her in a situation that really exacerbates the problems she already has. That said, as a dog owner with a backyard I know how handy they can be. I think your best bets are to get that fence converted to a privacy fence right away so she can't see out, and if possible keep her out of the backyard until it's completed, meanwhile continuing your training.

     
    Ditto, and in addition it is her territory so its not unheard of for them to act up. However with her issues I see your concern. Plus if she really wanted to she would have no trouble jumping a 5ft fence. Rory has jumped a 7 foot one really well. Ah, you have been coming so far but dont get discouraged. I just read a article that said certain breeds of dogs casue uneasyness in dogs by their natural posture such as boxers (firm stance), GSD (pirked up ears), and pit bulls as well!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think what really freaked me is how I couldn't break her focus.  At first, when I went out there and called to her, she started to come to me for a split secnd, and then turned back around to head for the fence.  It was like she knew that I was going to try to stop her from doing what she was doing.

    Are there any "focus breaking" exerises I can do with her?  I have been practicing "leave its" when she is playing with Jack and she does well, but I guess the situation is just too different to carry over.  The last time we encountered a strange dog on a walk on leash, the other dog (a golden) was off leash on the sidewalk.  The dog clearly wanted to meet her and was being friendly.  I just didn't let her stop and kept walking.  As it became clear we were not stopping to see the dog she pulled at the GL, but I kept talking to her in a "happy" voice and there was no growling, snarking, etc and everytime there has been an altercation with another dog she has growled, so I'm guessing she had no ill-intentions toward the golden.

    ETA: I am really angry at myself for not seeing this coming.  Tonight I'm going to tell DH that Sally is not to go into the yard at all until the fence is fully 6 ft privacy all around.  I really hope I haven't set her back too far.[:@]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have found that if I talk to Rory in a happy voice she defintly pays no mind to me. While I dislike Ceasr Milan greatly the one thing I agree with him on is using firm, no nonsense tones. I save the happy voice for praise.....ie after she has passed the distraction and is walking calmly again.
    I had and actually sometimes still have a hard time gaining her attention of the distraction is tempting enough. I used to use treats, I'd keep them in my coat pocket on walks and wave them infront of her nose but that didnt last long......until I found the super stinky freeze dried liver treats. Even still she didnt always take it but I used them anyhow because the strong smell got her attention for one split second....I would wait for it and give her the "stay" or "no" command firmly right when I saw her nose twitch for the treat.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I found these articles on desensitizing and such
     
    scroll down a bit for this page...
    [linkhttp://www.pethelp.net/aggdog.html]http://www.pethelp.net/aggdog.html[/link]
     
    [linkhttp://www.clickertraining.com/node/338]http://www.clickertraining.com/node/338[/link]
     
    and some great books, hopefully you'll have these at your local library
    [linkhttp://www.msu.edu/~silvar/books.htm]http://www.msu.edu/~silvar/books.htm[/link]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wouldn't be super worried about her reaction.  As others said, the territorial reaction it pretty common.  I have a 6 ft fence around my entire yard, but if either of my girls see someone walk by taller than the fence or with a hat on, they go a little nutty.  They also find little areas where they can peek thru and sometimes get excited by seeing the neighbors dog.  What I'd really spend my time working on is a good recall.  If you can get her to come to you ANY time you want, then you won't have a problem calling her off when necessary.  I know I need to work on it with my girls too.  Actually, maybe it's just me, but I think a good recall is the single best tool you can have.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Leaving her outdoors alone is problematic, since the only way to work with a dog who gets agitated at the presence of another dog, is to desensitize at a distance long enough away from the other dog that she can be drawn away to concentrate on you.  This is the very thing that gets people in trouble - she was too close to the distraction, and you were way too late in trying to engage her attention.   Review "Feisty Fido" and I think you'll get what I'm talking about. [;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think what really freaked me is how I couldn't break her focus.

     
    Christina, this reminded me of a passage from Bones Would Rain from the Sky where Suzanne Clothier was evaluating a dog who was not good at focusing on his owner... she brings him out to interact with her turkeys to see how he would be in an aroused state and see if she could call him out of that state. He becomes fixated on the flock and will not respond to Clothier's call at all.
     
    The passage is too long to reproduce here, but basically she says that when a dog is in that state, you must recognize that he's nearly incapable of responding to you. You can force the dog to pay attention by hurting or jerking him around, but that isn't going to do anything good to your relationship and is unfair to the dog. She says that you have to recognize the dog needs to be removed from that state of mind by getting him away from whatever is causing it. In that particular situation, she repeatedly nudged and gently poked the dog's rump until he showed some acknowledgment of her, then she promptly became as exciting as possible as she led him by the leash further away from the turkey flock - near enough that he could still see and be interested in it, but far enough that he was not highly aroused by it. She then went through a session of having the owner attempt to get his attention by stomping around, making noise, etc., and "jackpotting" the dog every time he looked at her.
     
    It's interesting to me that Clothier does not like the approach that some trainers take in training the dog to watch the handler's face no matter what... she feels this disrespect's the dog's natural curiosity in his surroundings and it calls to mind for her the saying "I'm married, not blind." She believes you can teach a dog to be able to pay attention to you and be aware of his surroundings at the same time.