Is is true some dogs are just so loyal if they fear their master is in trouble they will defend them?

Due to loyalty, I'm not sure, but I do know there are some dogs that are very keyed into threats and will respond.  The toughest thing to find is a dog that can somehow discern true danger from something just out of the ordinary and react accordingly.

Normally she doesn't have any ill feelings toward anyone.  She would rather love them. than anything.

But last night we had never seen her react that way toward another human being.  I think she sensed something was up.  Then again she is so in tune with us, she may have sensed it through my husband.

Anyways Stardog....I see you have a Ziva.   Our Terrier mix was almost a Ziva

Based on the history of natural selection and selective breeding, the guardian instinct is still there in most breeds. Call it loyalty or dependency, I think it is in a dogs nature.

I'm kind of a pessimist when it comes to things like this.  We can't really prove that the dog is reacting this way out of love/loyalty for us.  More often than not, I think the dog is reacting for their own safety.  They are afraid and on edge, so they react to protect themselves which indirectly benefits us if we are in the vicinity.  I really believe that a true personal protection dog is something that takes selective breeding and years and years of proper training and development.  Any dog will bite, or will be pushed into a fight or flight response if there is enough of a threatening trigger.

The dog might also be reacting to guard a resource -  the property or the owner.  Part of Nikon's bitework development was using his resource guarding behavior towards me.  Was he protecting me because he loves me?  I doubt it.  He was doing it because I am a valuable resource to him.  He knows where the food, treats, and toys come from.  I've also noticed that the more his confidence grows, the less resource guardy he is of me.

Also in order for me to truly say that the dog is a good protection dog, I need to see how the dog reacts when the threat is actually applied - when the big man actually starts pushing the dog physically and hitting the dog, not just a "shady" person standing in the shadow.  Even some of the best trained sport and protection dogs break down when the perceived threat becomes a reality.  This is why I am a pessimist.  I will not assume that because the dog is alerting to a shady person's presence, the dog will actually defend when force is applied.  Again this is why I believe protection dogs come from correct breeding and development.  It is unfair to test pet dogs in this scenario with no prior training or exposure.  I won't bank on my dog fighting back unless I've trained him to do so and I know that he will.  My dog is 14 months old and has been doing bitework development since he was 8 weeks old and just last Sunday was the first time that his fight drive kicked it.  It was the first time that he took the protection work to the next level and fought back rather than just reacting to the threat and doing the minimum necessary to remove it.

 I always thought I have the wussiest dogs, and figured, if somethings up, they would just run. But last year, when I took them out to potty there was this REALLY drunk dude, who came up to me, and I was VERY impressed at how both of them started barking and growling their little heads off. Like you dog, mine never ever act like that towards strangers, mostly just love em, or ignore em. In fact, I didnt think much of the guy, until the dogs started getting riled up, and he later on started coming after us. Thank god, the BF was there, and just knocked him to the ground and handed him to a security guard.

Granted, my dogs really aren't big enough to protect me, if it came down to it, and I am ok with that. But I sure was impressed at how tough they acted.

That said, I tend to agree with Liesje. I don't think it is loyalty. More of a regular defence mechanism. 

I wanted to add I would never turn my dog loose on anyone I love her way too much and she isn't a big dog, she is rather small.  19lbs.  She could easily be injured.    If I learned anything the other night most people if a dog starts viciously growling and barking at them they have enough common sense to get out of there.     Sadly though most people who see her in the daylight turn and walk in the other direction, no matter how sweet she is.   They don't like her Terrier look.   Sad because she is a 19lb JRT mix (very calm and sweet, major couch potato) that wouldn't hurt a fly and just wants to be loved.   But people are scared of what they don't understand or know.

anyways I will not be going outside after dark again, no matter how safe the community, without her with me.   I'm 6 months pregnant and I'm not that fast right now.  I would never turn her loose though, never.    Unless I truely felt I was in danger.  (and that would take a lot)   I'd hate to take the risk of turning her lose and her biting someone that really isn't up to no good because then I am in violation of the leash law and my dog will have had her first and only allowed offense.  (you get one bite here and thats it.  Its a freebie).    Though I'm more afraid if I set her loose and it was a bad guy she would go up and try to make friends and that wouldn't be good either.

I'd rather just let her intimidate from afar

Abbeyroad86

I'd rather just let her intimidate from afar

The problem with this though is that if you don't understand what is happening with the dog psychologically, it could be damaging for the dog.  If she is reacting out of fear an insecurity rather than a controlled, trained response, you may be allowing and encouraging behavior that actually demonstrates a lack of confidence in the situation.

I don't think of it that way.  I think of it as she is scaring the guy away long enough for us to get inside where we are all safe.   I'm not going to scold her or stop her from doing something good like she was doing it.

Now if she was acting like this all the time and not just in situations where its called for than I would see it as a problem.   But she goes on about loving everyone she meets.  So its obvously not a real issue

I have no intention of stopping her behavior.  She was fine after the guy was gone and so were we.  Again I feel a lot safer knowing we have her.   And i firmly believe its due to her loyalty

I'm extremely proud of her.

Fair enough but my take is that it's a normal reaction of fear/insecurity, not just because of loyalty/love.  The dog is protecting itself, telling the "threat" to go away.  I think they would do this regardless of whether humans are present.  A guarding behavior is different than a reaction to a threat.  I'm answering the question posed in the title of the thread, in more of a general sense.  Whether or not the dog will truly "defend" remains to be seen.

Liesje

Fair enough but my take is that it's a normal reaction of fear/insecurity, not just because of loyalty/love.  The dog is protecting itself, telling the "threat" to go away.  I think they would do this regardless of whether humans are present.  A guarding behavior is different than a reaction to a threat.  I'm answering the question posed in the title of the thread, in more of a general sense.  Whether or not the dog will truly "defend" remains to be seen.

I'm guessing you are right, Liesje, and I'm always interested in this dynamic.  Why is it that people seem to want so badly to believe that the dog is protecting them.  Their own insecurity?  Ego?  Anthropomorphic fantasy?  Most dogs are just alerting you so that you can protect them, or so they can keep a valued resource (you).  The ones who protect by nature usually come out of the working and herding groups, and as was pointed out, they too often back down when a real threat is applied.  Of course, it is often true that John Q. Public doesn't know that that the dog might really be a weenie.  So, de facto, the dog becomes protection...

 Most dogs, if they aren't specifically bred and trained for it (and often even if they are) will run rather than stand when faced with a REAL threat.

I agree with others who have said it is more likely to be a simple fear-response, rather than love/loyalty.

That said, sometimes dogs really ARE heroes.  I recall a news story about a stray Staffy that ran over and intervened when a woman (not her owner) was being attacked.  So, the dog wasn't protecting a valuable resource, and if it was fear she would have surely run away rather than put herself forward?  Yet that wasn't love or loyalty either - more like altruism?  In any case, stories like this make the news because they ARE "new" - in other words, unusual, not the norm.  Sometimes dogs do risk their skin to save others,and it isn't ALWAYS fear, or even training that makes them do it.

Liesje

Fair enough but my take is that it's a normal reaction of fear/insecurity, not just because of loyalty/love.  The dog is protecting itself, telling the "threat" to go away.  I think they would do this regardless of whether humans are present.  A guarding behavior is different than a reaction to a threat.  I'm answering the question posed in the title of the thread, in more of a general sense.  Whether or not the dog will truly "defend" remains to be seen.

I totally agree. I would say that the vast majority of dogs who act like this are doing so out of weak nerve and their own self defense, and if confronted by the person/object that they are "defending you" against they will high tail it out of there once they realise barking at them is not deterring them.

Liesje

I doubt it.  He was doing it because I am a valuable resource to him.  He knows where the food, treats, and toys come from

We had a dog who was very protective, and we always said that he acted in his best interets, he was just protecting his food source.

The protectiveness was not expected , as he was a Labrador, but my goodness he was a keen guard.

He did defend three times.

For us it was not really wanted, we aren't guard dog people, and really didn't want one. It meant that we needed to be very cautious at home with visitors.