Laying puppies on their backs to socialize??

 Sounds to me like they are thinking in old style dominance terms.    They just need to play with them and help teach them boundaries of bite inhibition, etc.

Shaking my head in total disbelief.  What idiots.

I have mine on their backs regularly...upside down, head down, feet on a wet surface, cold surface, etc...this is at 2-3 weeks old. It is part of the Super Puppy program I believe. You do this to stimulate a stress response in the pup, no more than 2-3 seconds at a time, a few times a day. It stimulates their brains and puppies put thru this seem to be smarter and take more regularly to training as adults. Many GSD folks do this kind of thing I believe.

I also will turn my pups over as older pups, because a dog should be comfortable with many different experiences before you place them in homes. In fact holding or restraining a puppy, either suspending above the ground or on their back in your arms, can tell you a lot about it's personality and give you cues on what to work on and what sort of home might work best for that pup. It is actually a part of Puppy Aptitude Testing.

A pup that pees itself when simply turned over an held a couple seconds is going to need a different home and training method than one that growls or bites at your hards.

It's not about dominance it's about getting to know your litter, aiding in placement and knowing ahead of time who might be a handful and who might benefit from a quieter home.

I agree with rwbeagles - as many expierence you can get them use to the better.   And being handled is an important one, but should not be a forced unpleasant expierence.  I would play and rub feet (they didn't like that) and turn them over and play and rub belly too.  

GIna, that's what many breeders do with pups and I think it's a good idea for all the reasons you mentioned.  I get all my dogs comfortable with being handled in any position.  It's so much easier if they get this in puppyhood but I do it with adult dogs too. 

Gina, what you say makes sense. 

I was sort of puzzled because they told me there is one pup in the litter that doesn't like being laid on its back or having its belly rubbed, so they keep doing it with the pup in order to desensitize.  To me, though, trying to force the pup to withstand this for 2-4 minutes at a time seemed a bit excessive.  I could see shorter sessions - at most a minute.  But I am not an expert and as I said, it's been 18 years since I raised a puppy.

It may be they're pushing it...BUT. What if the pup didn't like it's FEET or EARS handled? Would we just allow that nonsense and let the pup get away with it? What struggles might the new home have with such a pup?

IME it is far better to mold when the pup is MOST, malleable...that being 3-8 weeks old. It's not about forcing but coaxing..lots of treats...lots of praise...lots of small short attempts thruou the day. One on one away from the litter because many times that really can make the difference for a pup.

I think they might be pushing it...esp if no treats or praise are involved...but it DOES need to be addressed because a dog goes to a vet and other places where being restrained is simply part of life. I am sure many of the vets, vet techs, groomers etc on this forum can attest that the more a dog is used to...the easier it is to give them the care they need.

I am not there daily to see how others are handling the puppies.  Yesterday what I saw was one employee handling the pup and no treats or praise were being given.  He was carrying the pup separate from its littermates, cradled in his arm, and continuously trying to rub its belly.  Reminded me of what I felt like when being tickled as a kid, at first it was cute but it became tedious very quickly, esp. when the person tickling me would hold me down.  The puppy was biting and kicking its feet as if to say "enough already".  But I do understand that you can't just let the puppy get away with bratty behavior.  I'm curious to see what type of progress will be made with this girl.

How old are the puppies?  I do this neuro stim thing for my breeder (not sure what it's called), but starting week one the puppies are handling right side up, upside down, dangling with their feet out, dangling with their heads down, rubbed on the belly, rubbed on the back, etc.  It's not really a training or socialization thing, more of a neurological stimulation exercise when they are that young, and just develops into being used to being handled in general.

While I do understand what Gina and Lies are saying, I still don't agree with this handling of shelter pups.  I honestly don't think 3-4 minute sessions, particularly with one he doesn't like being on his back, are helpful.  Handling pups, exposing them to all sorts of different stimuli and experiences, yep, couldn't agree more, but......

rwbeagles

It may be they're pushing it...BUT. What if the pup didn't like it's FEET or EARS handled? Would we just allow that nonsense and let the pup get away with it? What struggles might the new home have with such a pup?

IME it is far better to mold when the pup is MOST, malleable...that being 3-8 weeks old. It's not about forcing but coaxing..lots of treats...lots of praise...lots of small short attempts thruou the day. One on one away from the litter because many times that really can make the difference for a pup.

I think they might be pushing it...esp if no treats or praise are involved...but it DOES need to be addressed because a dog goes to a vet and other places where being restrained is simply part of life. I am sure many of the vets, vet techs, groomers etc on this forum can attest that the more a dog is used to...the easier it is to give them the care they need.

well Glenda I did mention it might not be getting done properly. But...IMO it does need to get done. Pups, esp of this breed REALLY need to be okay with all sorts of handling because if they are not they will be judged MORE harshly by the public if they even make trivial objections with their mouths or noises...sad but true. If I had a pup that resisted handling I would definitely be working on just such handling, daily in the most positive, but consistent way possible.

The reason behind handling pups while they are in a supine position is to get them used to it while they are young, just as you would expose puppies to any experience that you want them to tolerate later as adults.  This is *not* to dominate, it's to insure that they will feel comfortable, or at least less anxious, later if they need to be in a recumbent position for you to inspect for fleas/ticks, for the vet to take x-rays, or for any other legitimate purpose that does not come naturally to dogs, but which you might need them to accept.

The puppies are 7 or 8 weeks old.  I do not know their history before they came here, but if I had to guess, they are at the shelter because they all didn't sell in front of Walmart.  It's a very sad but true state of affairs here in this county.  We are inundated by overbred pits in this area.

I think the difficult part is that there are many people handling the pups and they may not all do it in the exact same way.  Not that being handled by a lot of people is bad, but the consistency thing is what I mean.