Has anyone else had this experience?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Has anyone else had this experience?

    Over the past several months I have learned an important lesson - when something goes "wrong" with the dog's behavior or training, it's not always necessary to focus on that specific behavior in order to work past it.

    I think the best example of this was Nikon's dog reactivity.  From about 6-10 months he was really dog reactive.  On walks if he saw another dog, his hackles would go up and he would bark, groan and lunge.  It was odd b/c he has always been fine in the conformation ring, and we carpool to training with friends so there are dogs crated side by side with no rumblings, but out in public on leash he was very reactive.  Now my first thought was that I should keep walking him, but use more careful management (turn around faster) and work hard on desensitization.  I tried this a few times and it was epic phail, mostly because I cannot control my neighborhood, like people walking their dog up to me even though I am clearly trying to move my dog and turn away, or loose dogs charging out of their yards up to my dog's face.

    So for about 4 months, walks were not part of Nikon's regular routine.  During that time we got heavily involved in SchH.  We got a new trainer who has already taught me more about my dogs than I could have ever figured out by myself in their lifetimes.  I learned how to motivate my dog with things that are inherently motivating for *him* (not just the common rewards that *I* am most comfortable using). I learned how to make training about playing games and developing a bond with the dog.  We did all of this *without* any intentional exposure to other dogs.  It was strictly about me learning how to motivate my dog and the dog learning how to play the game with me.

    Then about mid-summer I wanted to walk Nikon again.  I remember the first really long walk, I was concerned about the reactivity and how much bigger and stronger my dog had grown.  On this walk we passed several other dogs on walks and were confronted with loose dogs in close proximity.  Amazingly, the reactivity was gone.  The only interest or signal from Nikon was "hey I'm just walking by with my mom and it's all cool as long as you don't charge up in my face." Now we are walking just fine.  In fact I walk all three dogs by myself with the leashes loosely draped in one hand and I'm not carrying treats or other rewards along.  Nikon is in a CGC class right now and he's the most well-behaved, relaxed dog in the class.  Ironically, on the first day he layed down and put his head down about 4 feet away from a Basset hound who is fearful of other dogs.  Nikon the bully and the fearful Basset, lol.  I often train at a nearby church yard and a few times I've had him fetching off leash and I see a dog approaching, hold my breath, but now he just glances at the passing dog and comes back to me for more fetch whereas before I would have had to step on the line and somehow distract him or remove him from sight.

    Now I am not saying that desensitization or doing some other more direct approach is never valuable or appropriate, I was just pleasantly surprised at how far we came with one issue by completely stepping away from it and totally focusing on something else.  I don't know if he simply "grew out of" the reactivity, or if by developing our bond and respect for each other he is more confident and less concerned with other dogs.  He will never be a dog that wants to go to the dog park and play, and I do not allow head-on greetings, but he is now working in SchH and in CGC class in very close proximity to a variety of dogs. 

    I think about this experience often because so many GSD owners experience the same reactivity problems and I see people working tirelessly to desensitize their dogs and often making very little progress or resorting to using a corrective device as a crutch.  It has shown me how important it is to have that bond and respect between you and your dog before you can even begin to touch on behavior issues.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Liesje
    It has shown me how important it is to have that bond and respect between you and your dog before you can even begin to touch on behavior issues.

    Very true, if someone is a trainer and is helping a dog, how the dog can realize that you are not as permisive as the rest of the humans that let the behavior escalate to the point where help is needed?

    I have a couple techniques that help me with dogs that i have just met, techniques that even Victoria Stilwell agrees with.

    What its exactly what you did? Do you think that you didnt have the bond and respect of your dog before?

    • Gold Top Dog

     I'm a great believer of encouraging good habits and I love the way they generalise with very little work. I love sit as a default behaviour whenever a dog wants something. It just goes a long way to a calm state of mind. Sometimes when Kivi desperately wants to run across the road and introduce himself to a strange dog, I ask for a sit and he does, and in a few seconds he has calmed down and is quite receptive to doing things that don't involve running across the road to jump all over a strange dog. I was nervous of getting a default behaviour after Penny as she ONLY ever sat or barked, or sat harder. But even with a little clicker training and a lot of rewards, Kivi is not the same. There are times for default sitting and times for being more creative. Kivi picked that up easily. I love to watch him trying to link behaviours to getting a reward. It makes me happy that he can do that AND default to sit and I never have to tell him when to do which one.

    • Puppy

    It sounds like by doing all the other obedience/ScH work with him definitely improved your relationship and not only developed your bond and his respect for you, but increased his value for you. So I would suggest it wasn't just focusing on other things and leaving the issue that was creating his dog aggression alone, but managing and improving other aspects of your relationship, and therefore improving whatever it was that was causing his DA through building a stronger relationship with you (if that makes sense).

    When I was first training my DA dog not to be reactive, we didn't just work on getting his focus around other dogs and moving him away when a dog crossed/was about to cross his 'threshold', but my whole relationship with him. I worked on increasing his value for me and improving his general obedience etc. I did a lot of ground work before gradually walking him closer to other dogs.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I think also that you sometimes don't realise just how long it takes for a bond with your animal to really blossom. The more time you spend with them the stronger it becomes. I remember thinking when Kivi was about 6 months old that we were settling in to what our relationship would be like for the rest of his life, but then it deepened. I thought THEN that we were about as good as we were going to get, but then it deepened still more. I'm actually finding Kivi harder in some ways now because I've been spending more time with him and he has come to want much more time with me.

    It's interesting. I guess with Penny I sort of put a cap on how good it could get by misusing punishments. I'm still learning what happens when you don't do that.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    espencer

    What its exactly what you did? Do you think that you didnt have the bond and respect of your dog before?

     

    It's not that it wasn't there, but it wasn't strong enough or mature enough to carry through.  I think part of it was maturity (of the dog).  GSDs definitely go through "fear stages" and there are times in their development where they are more suspicious of things and that can easily turn into reactivity or some form of fear aggression.  Not being able to control the environment, I didn't want to keep exposing him and risk making it worse.

    He also came a looooong way in his bitework during the period we were not walking or going near strange dogs.  That probably helped with his confidence and gave him an outlet for that drive and aggression.

    • Gold Top Dog

     When Sioux was a puppy, she hid under the chairs at puppy class:-)  She is inherently a "demure" dog, and I was concerned that she wouldn't be able to fill Dancer's shoes as my next therapy dog.  Dancer was a very, very confident dog in all situations.  But, suddenly, once Sioux started agility training, her confidence blossomed (perhaps the same thing as Sch for your dog).  I'm convinced that it is the working relationship and communication between you, plus the physical activity itself that forms the trust and confidence that you share.  She has now been a consummate therapy dog for 8 years, never a falter, never a moment when I think she will not do the work she has been trained to do.  I really believe that when the dog has confidence in you, he has better confidence in himself and in situations.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I always say every dog needs training, but the relationship has to come first for the training to really matter. You can train, and train, and train, but if the dog doesn't value you, if you don't have relevance to the dog, then the training reaches a ceiling and there's only so far you can go.

    I see what you are talking about, though, with Gaci and her agility. Through her training for agility and agility alone, Gaci now thrives in crowds, can have a stranger follow her around the ring, work alongside other dogs, and has increased her patience in a way that no "behaviour modification" on its own did.

    I would say that age was a big part of it, though, too....it always is. Dogs need time to mature and you can't really see the "real" dog until they've reached social maturation. For Nikon, his reactivity could have just been teenage hissy fits about not getting what he wants and a general frustration that comes with adolescence, and it happened to be taken out on dogs on walks because that seemed like an appropriate outlet for him. I'd also wager that the schutzhund training gave him a new outlet to expend his pent up energy and teenage angst so that the dogs on walks don't seem that important anymore, because of everything else he has experienced and how he's come to view you.

    Whatever it was, glad to hear the reactivity has cleared up!!! Heck.....who would have thought that one day I could bring a foster into my home? Let alone have all the dogs loose together by the second day? With Gaci's reactivity issues and Shimmer's troubled past with strange dogs, you have to simply take the blessings as they come. Big Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

     Kivi's sister is a show dog living with her breeders. I was talking to them recently and they were disappointed that Kivi's sister was not as naturally confident as Kivi is and would not put her tail up in the ring. But they haven't written her off as a show dog. They are taking a break with her to do some herding. They were quite confident that the herding - which she loves - would boost her confidence so that she could make a return to the show ring later.