Looking skinny

Maybe he's just hitting a 'lanky-puppy' stage? My Border Collie never hit that "ugly" lanky(and skinny) stage until he was 7 or 8 months old.

dyan

.    So the ratio has been like 2 c meat, 1 cup veggies, 1/2 c grain, then I top it with about 1/2 cottage cheese,,, and he gets a couple of spoons of yogurt or an egg for breakfast.

 

  Dyan; Are you adding a calcium supplement to balance the amount of phosphorus in the cooked diet; with the amount of meat you're using, it's very likely that he's not getting enough calcium. One of the conditions that can be caused by a calcium deficiency is hyperparathyroidism, which would make it harder for him to gain weight, not to mention the affect a calcium shortage can have on his skeletal development. 

  If, for example, the 2 cups of meat weighs about 12 ounces, you would need to add 858 milligrams of calcium. The half a cup of cottage cheese you're feeding has about 65 milligrams.
 

jessies_mom

Dyan; Are you adding a calcium supplement to balance the amount of phosphorus in the cooked diet; with the amount of meat you're using, it's very likely that he's not getting enough calcium. One of the conditions that can be caused by a calcium deficiency is hyperparathyroidism, which would make it harder for him to gain weight, not to mention the affect a calcium shortage can have on his skeletal development. 

  If, for example, the 2 cups of meat weighs about 12 ounces, you would need to add 858 milligrams of calcium. The half a cup of cottage cheese you're feeding has about 65 milligrams.
 

Holy Toledo!  Your saying that in order for him to get enough calcium that he needs 13 cups of cottage cheese a meal????

Well...so this is the reason that I haven't taken him off dog food... I have read so many times to not add calcium for a puppy Dane. Of course I"m sure that is because there is enough in dog food....but I do feed him one meal of dog food and really am afraid to add it.

 I thought I read someplace here that if you add some cheese and/or cottage cheese and/or egg with shell that it gives enough calcium

Okay...so I've had all night to think about this.  It seems that in my quest do help my dog to better health...I am messing him up. BIG TIME! By reading about home cooking ( and raw for that matter ) I knew a lot of time and knowledge must be put into it. I also knew that feeding a Great Dane like this was a whole lot harder and/or expensive.  I knew that a lot of time and money had to be put into it and I was not ever going to have either.  The thing that got me started was the lady that owns a company that sells natural and holistic things...raises and shows/showed Great Danes over many years and attends the dog shows. She pointed out to me that you don't need to be a rocket scientist to home feed your dog...that as long as you change what you are feeding them regularly that by the end of the week they had all they need and are healthier for it. 

Since I have been buying extra stuff...picking up this or that to put in Gibbys food, and cooking, chopping, portioning, packing, freezing ( which I don't have a big freezer ) it looks like my dog comes from a death camp. Is he hungrier than he always was...I don't know..he is always trying to eat everything...as did Bubblegum and Ollie and any other dog I have ever had.  BUT,,, since starting this Gibby had been on his back legs stealing from the counter..never did that before... ate his kong toy which now I am worrying about what is still in his system that might cause blockage.  All in all...he is NOT better for it..and I'm walking around with a smirk on my face because I think I am doing so much for my dog.  And that is with only giving him ONE home cooked a day...BilJac Frozen the other whch could really put weight on him.   

I am not prepared to go all the way to get fish, organ meats, whatever.whatever, whatever and then on top of it....all the supplements and vitamins you need to add to it.  Seems to me we were taught that to get your vitamins and minerals its best to get them from the food you eat....but that doesn't seem to be true with dogs... you need to add them to the food. And sit with a calculator to do it.    Looked at the Honest Kitchen thing....and even printed a coupon and used the locator to find where I can actually buy in person...I sure don't need to add shipping charges to an already expensive item.  Geez......there is no way I can afford to do this and I can't honestly see that it is worth it at this point.  All these people are selling consultation...vitamines. and supplements......... makes me wonder if this might be what it is really all about.  

Whatever,,,,,I layed in bed last night thinking and thinking ( Janice the Calcium conversation is what made me see the light....I thought I was doing well by giving him egg shells... cottage chese and I wasn't even in the ballgame ) and I know I have to go back on my dog food.   I just got myself in a "pickle" not knowing if I should keep him on EP which I believe in totally....or go with frozen BilJac or Fresh Pet which is more digestable.   But whatever.... I dont' have time to fool with this anymore....he is too thin and I don't want to mess him up...he is healthy and happy and I want to keep him that way and while he is growing so much...I don't think I can keep up with the change. Maybe some day when he is full grown and can go back and get into this a little better...but now while he is growing.

I will take the few meals that I have already prepared and add them to whatever I feed him.  I read again on the Great Dane Lady website that there is only three pet foods that she knows of that you can safely add toppings...1. EP 2. Wysong  and I honestly don't remember the other.   So I am going keep him on frozen BilJac for a few more days...I feel with that stupid Kong floating around in his belly...I need to feed him food he can digest really easy.....then I will probably put him right back on EP.  Many Dane owners use the frozen BJ for toppings.... I might just do that to get weight on him.  I am so confused now.

dyan

  All these people are selling consultation...vitamines. and supplements......... makes me wonder if this might be what it is really all about.

   Dyan; The recipes that Monica and Sabine develop for people are based on the 2006 recommendations by the National Research Council; they are providing safe, balanced recipes for those that want to feed their dogs home cooked or raw. Of course it's a business and they're making money but they also provide a valuable service. Many of the members on K9 Kitchen have dogs that don't do well on commercial food because of conditions like IBD or pancreatitis. The amount of supplements needed depends on how much variety a dog can handle; Jessie needs 7 supplements because of her food allergies but I've seen diets in Monica's booklets that have a lot of different foods and very few supplements. Providing a variety of foods is part of balancing the diet, but you need to know a dog's requirements and the nutritional value of the foods you're using.  I finally decided to cook for Jessie because with allergies to seven common ingredients she can't eat the majority of commercial foods; my veterinary dermatologist even wants me to avoid chicken fat.
 

dyan

Whatever,,,,,I layed in bed last night thinking and thinking ( Janice the Calcium conversation is what made me see the light....I thought I was doing well by giving him egg shells... cottage chese and I wasn't even in the ballgame ) and I know I have to go back on my dog food.   I just got myself in a "pickle" not knowing if I should keep him on EP which I believe in totally....or go with frozen BilJac or Fresh Pet which is more digestable.   But whatever.... I dont' have time to fool with this anymore....he is too thin and I don't want to mess him up...he is healthy and happy and I want to keep him that way and while he is growing so much...I don't think I can keep up with the change. Maybe some day when he is full grown and can go back and get into this a little better...but now while he is growing.

 

   You know, I went to bed last night thinking maybe I was harping too much on the calcium and I didn't want to upset you. I do think it's better ot keep him on a food like EP until he's finished growing.

It's not that hard to figure out how much calcium you need to add and then well, add it. You just forgot to do that step. And well, growing Danes often look very skinny and they SHOULD look that way.

Dyan, I think I said this before - you know I'm quite the champion for home cooking.  But, if I were in your shoes - just starting out with a giant breed that is known to be highly sensitive to growing joint issues - I'd just stick with what I know works and use the time until he's done growing to get familar with feeding an adult Great Dane.

There is probably a yahoo group for home feeding or raw feeding Danes (or giant breeds).

I found two - both are VERY much on the raw feeding extreme side, but might be a starting point.  One is called "WholesomeDane" and the other is called "GreatDanesNaturally."

And then of course, I'd highly recommend simply signing on to K9 Nutrition and reading for a while - just reading and learning.

And don't worry - you haven't done Gibby any permanent harm by experimenting - but you want to go back to charted waters pretty soon now.  But I know tons of people who home cook and raw feed giant breeds - Danes, even - it does take some work, though.  But they think it's worth it!

If I could afford it I would feed my danes on an entirely raw diet. Kibble may be ok for "robust" more natural breeds like oh, border collies, but Danes are stressed by just existing and kibble is NOT GOOD for them.

mudpuppy

If I could afford it I would feed my danes on an entirely raw diet. Kibble may be ok for "robust" more natural breeds like oh, border collies, but Danes are stressed by just existing and kibble is NOT GOOD for them.

There is definitely something to that.  One is reminded that a lot of the original feeding trials were done on breeds like Beagles.  There probably isn't a sturdier breed other than multigenerational village dog or similar "natural" breeds. 

I feel the same way about Zhi.  She goes the opposite extreme, plus adding in the hairlessness. 

Dyan, I don't know about Dane nutrition but I wanted to say we met a Dane puppy at the vet's Monday and he was also very lanky and skinny looking--I'm used to a lot of fur so seeing ribs struck me. 

So, maybe that's normal??  Ask your boss before you drive yourself crazy. 

jessies_mom

You know, I went to bed last night thinking maybe I was harping too much on the calcium and I didn't want to upset you. I do think it's better ot keep him on a food like EP until he's finished growing.

 

Not at all....it was what needed to be said to make me know I was not even close to doing the right thing for my dog. Not even close.

jessies_mom

Of course it's a business and they're making money but they also provide a valuable service.

I have no objection to someone making money, having a job...offering a service.  AND I wasn't only talking about the two you mentioned.... the lady that I have spoken to also has a business, she also does consultations and although she does not sell those consultations she does sell many supplements that she probably suggests.....as MS.

So PLEASE....if I sounded angry and them or you or anyone..please forgive me. I AM angry at myself however.....as I said I knew you needed to put a lot of time and money into this...and I did not. I thought I was...believe me it was a lot more simple opening my bag of EP and putting probiotics on and adding a few toppings..... but it was no where near what I needed to put in this.

Yes Becca...you did kind of suggest to not do this yet for Gibby,,,,I remember that....but I had already started doing what I was doing because of Jeanette...the lady that I spoke to.   But I did  add the frozen BJ for a meal to make sure he wasn't missing something...but now I see even that was not good enough.

Yeah...I agree with you Mudpuppy....Danes don't do well on kibble.....I am a believer in that.  But I need to get h im where he needs to be and then try to keep him there.....but I am not  doing a good job now thats for sure.   He is growing faster than I am cooking and planning....and I need to keep up with that growth.

Lori....P-L-E-A-S-E,,,ask my boss...   she has about 5 or 6 big dogs...I bet15 cats.... a ferret or two....tropical fish...a rat....and God knows what she added to her menagerie,,,,but she DOES think I'm totally nuts in most of the things I do for my dogs...she is always unhappy at my choices in vaccinations and things....and while she does love animals and pets.....she thinks that is what they are PETS...unlike us here.  LOL!

 Ena went through a lanky stage, at that age, too, and she's a toy dog! I think it's pretty normal. I don't remember what Emma did, at that age. Emma was pretty much emaciated, til I got her on raw, though. She has issues. A subscription, even.....

 

I'm really too nervous to feed a puppy a fresh diet, without a total consult. I had hoped that, by the time I got  the next puppy, I'd be all armed and ready. Turns out, my puppy wasn't planned, LOL. I had an "oops" puppy Ena really hasn't had a problem with eating a base of commercial foods, until this point, and she's grown into a beautiful, young adult dog. Being a toy dog, she should be pretty much finished growing taller. When this bag of dog food runs out, she's eating fresh. I would probably do what you're doing. Feed a top quality commercial diet with fresh toppers, til Gibby's finished with his major growing. It's just too scary.

 

And, FWIW, I don't think a commercial diet is ideal for a puppy, but a well balanced, healthy dog food is MUCH better than an unbalanced fresh diet, when growth is involved.

jennie_c_d

And, FWIW, I don't think a commercial diet is ideal for a puppy, but a well balanced, healthy dog food is MUCH better than an unbalanced fresh diet, when growth is involved.

I agree - the four puppies before Lynnberger have eaten commercial mixed with raw.  Lynn terrified me, even with all the experience I had.  Recovering from parvo, picky eater, still a very young puppy, possible joint issues down the road, and on top of everything I didn't have any earthly idea of how big she'd be - it looked for all the world like she might be a giant breed cross!  So she got a formal professional consult.