Stacking help. =(

    • Gold Top Dog

    Stacking help. =(

    Cooper is still very nervous when it comes to stacking. We had our first show and he sat down when the judge tried to see if he was intact, TWICE! D= How embarrassing! He just seems to lose all confidence when I hand stack him, and he doesn't wag his tail ever after I do that. I was thinking that maybe just working on free stacking would be the answer. Any suggestions on what I can do to get him to enjoy doing conformation work and getting his confidence back? I want him to be like the other happy-go-lucky labs in the ring, which he is at home, but he gets all bent out of shape at the show and at class. We do take him out a lot, but maybe we both just need more experience. This is my first time doing any of this, too, so I'm sure he's feeding off of my insecurity! But it's not like we can use a professional handler because he won't let anyone else hand stack him. 
    • Gold Top Dog

    Stack him every day, everywhere you are. Take him to the park, stack him, praise like crazy, feed him a treat, THEN play. Going to the bank? Take him! Stack him in the parking lot, stick him back in the car, and go through the drive through for your Milk Bone. Just keep doing it in as many places as you can.

     

    My puppy is table shy. She gaits and free stacks beautifully. I've been stacking her on anything I can, and having random people feed her and touch her while she's on stuff. It helps SO MUCH. Get people who are dog nerds to feel his testicles while he's stacked and being fed liverwurst (or something equally yummy). That has to be rough. I mean, how often do people really grab you there? It's gotta become often, and it's gotta be strangers.  

    • Gold Top Dog

     I have to second the stack him everywhere you go!!!

    I have been taking my 4 month old Vizsla everywhere I go and stacking him while people walk by with kids,shopping carts being pushed,on our walks,out in the yard,etc. When my friends come over or when I go to their house I have their 7 year old daughter touch him all over while he's stacked except for his stuff, cant really ask a 7 year old to do that!! Sometimes I even have the 7 year old stack him and I touch him all over including his stuff.

    I also go to a conformation class though so that's been helping me too. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    kle1986

     I have to second the stack him everywhere you go!!!

    I have been taking my 4 month old Vizsla everywhere I go and stacking him while people walk by with kids,shopping carts being pushed,on our walks,out in the yard,etc. When my friends come over or when I go to their house I have their 7 year old daughter touch him all over while he's stacked except for his stuff, cant really ask a 7 year old to do that!! Sometimes I even have the 7 year old stack him and I touch him all over including his stuff.

    I also go to a conformation class though so that's been helping me too. 

     

     

    Yes, we go to class, too, and he's awfully tense the whole time. Not awful, but decidedly not enjoying himself, and sometimes gets nervous when he's gone over (not every time, and he gets better as class goes on). 

    • Silver

    The one true way to get a happy Labrador -- FOOD!

    You know what they say about people eating because of stress? Well there is truth to that. Eating does reduce stress. Works on dogs too. I learned this at an obedience seminar. That was one recommendation for stressed dogs, lots of treats. (of course the meals need to be reduced in size to make up for the large amounts of training treats.) It's a good idea to use their actual dog food for a training treat if that will work.

    So when you are training, keep the treats flowing. Once he is better trained and having a good time, then you can start to cut back. Right now it would be just about impossible to over-reward. You could feed him his entire dinner over the course of one handling class.

    Keep training sessions short and light. Concentrate more on having a happy dog than a well-stacked one. A well-stacked dog that is not happy is always going to lose to the happy animated dog that doesn't behave perfectly well. Maybe you need to relax and have a good time at class and at shows too? If you are stressed your dog will pick up on that. At shows I become absolutely chatty with people in the ring and people sitting ringside. It's a good way for me to relax. (I watch the previous classes if possible to watch the judge's style. Some judges never look down the line, then we can just relax. Some judges look at the line after watching each individual dog. Then I just make sure my dog doesn't look terrible when the other dogs are finished with their go-around. The rest of the time we relax.) At handling class I am also relaxed and chatting with people. Smile and laugh at your dog. Let him know that he is the light of your life. Play games with your dog. Literally. Bring a toy to class.

    Another thing that helps me relax is that before each class or show, I pick just ONE thing as our goal. Right now that one thing for you is to have fun. As you progress and that isn't a problem any more, you will pick a new goal. Maybe that would be a good exam, after that maybe a good down and back. That gives you something to focus on, and when you meet that goal you will have a sense of accomplishment whether you win or lose. Lowers the frustration level. Wink At your next handling classes and your next shows, you will not be be worried about how your dog performs, you will not be concerned with how he places. Your only concern will be that he has a Good Time. (You too!) Relax, have fun. While you are at class having fun, you will be able to get some training in here and there. You will make progress. The Labrador ring is a very competitive place. Dogs generally don't start winning until they are two or older. So right now you shouldn't be concerned with that. I always consider the first year of showing a dog just for training, socialization, and exposure. I never expect or worry about winning. By the time your dog is mature and ready to win, you should both know what you are doing by then. You have plenty of time. My dog is two and just in the last six months has she become reliable about not jumping on the judges. Sleep

    As far as the stacking, I would keep working on it. But you don't expect to get the whole behavior at once. Like everything else we teach our dogs, it has to be broken down into small steps. This is how I do it. At first, I have a fist full of treats in my right hand. I hold that out in front of the puppy's nose and gradually hand them out. My left hand is just barely brushing in front of their flank. Not holding, no pressure. Just a reminder. That will keep them standing. I make it like a regular obedience command. Stand, Stay, then after a moment followed by a release word. Gradually increasing the time, and also gradually begin to move my left hand over the dog, back, legs, tail, under the tail. When you are close to areas he's uncomfortable with, make sure the food is flowing. He will relax and stop being bothered. Don't worry about the leg positions for now. All we are concerned about is that he maintain the stay and allow himself to be touched, while remaining happy and relaxed. If you start trying to move legs around and he doesn't even know how to stand still, it just turns into a tense struggle. So a relaxed stay comes first.

    Then I start moving my right hand so sometimes I am holding in front of the nose with treats, and sometimes my hand is in the collar (no treats.) Also start gradually rocking away from the dog, sideways, and up and down a little. That would be in preparation for him continuing to stand as you stand over him and position him and also to maintain the stay as you step in front. THEN, you can start trying to gently place a leg. Did they show you in class how to grab at the elbow and well above the hocks?

    When you are at class, let the instructor know that you want to work on him being happy for the exam. Just have him do the beginning stand I described above, treats in front of nose being doled out, and left hand lightly in front of his flanks. Then just have the instructor touch him on the head and the back. That would be enough at first. Over time gradually have the instructor be more thorough. If Cooper ever starts to act unhappy, you are pushing things too fast. Take it back a step. Also see if the instructor will give him a treat before and after each exam for a while.

    So in conclusion, relax, have fun, use lots of treats. Do more hand stacking, not less. But do it in a happy light non-stressful way. Don't expect too much or be demanding when hand stacking. Keep it short.

    • Gold Top Dog

     http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Writing/confstack.html

    Read the whole thing - well worth the trouble.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Anne wins. I love that article! I especially enjoyed the part about free stacking, because Ena B needs to learn that, desperately.

    • Gold Top Dog

     That is gonna help me alot!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    I read the whole thing and I am not into showing in confirmation but it is an excellent guide and I sent it to a few friends who are new to the show ring.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Great article, and just what I needed to work on Luna's hand stacking. Thanks for posting that!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Great article, thanks Anne!

    Well, I would say just keep practicing, but at some point you may just come to realize he doesn't like the ring.  Lots of dogs don't enjoy showing... it's part of some dogs personality to be less showy and less inclined to go out there full of confidence and having fun.  Some can be trained to stand still and even do some winning, but those dogs will never be the Top Dogs no matter how perfectly formed they are, because there is something to be said about showmanship.

    He's a baby, practice, make it fun... just try to enjoy it. I have a feeling you maybe taking this very seriously which can cause tension and stress in a puppy.  I say, try it as fun.  Stack, cookies, play, stack, cookies, play... make it fun and see if that helps him to enjoy it more.  Don't go for longer than 2 -5 min.and don't worry about the perfect stack, just work on one end.  Front end or back end, probably start with the front, worry about the rear later, doesn't matter if they are in a great stack, just get him used to you moving his les and body around.  But, at this age whatever you do, make sure it's fun for him.

    If not, maybe it's just not his thing.  Definitely not the end of the world.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sera_J

    Great article, thanks Anne!

    Well, I would say just keep practicing, but at some point you may just come to realize he doesn't like the ring.  Lots of dogs don't enjoy showing... it's part of some dogs personality to be less showy and less inclined to go out there full of confidence and having fun.  Some can be trained to stand still and even do some winning, but those dogs will never be the Top Dogs no matter how perfectly formed they are, because there is something to be said about showmanship.

    He's a baby, practice, make it fun... just try to enjoy it. I have a feeling you maybe taking this very seriously which can cause tension and stress in a puppy.  I say, try it as fun.  Stack, cookies, play, stack, cookies, play... make it fun and see if that helps him to enjoy it more.  Don't go for longer than 2 -5 min.and don't worry about the perfect stack, just work on one end.  Front end or back end, probably start with the front, worry about the rear later, doesn't matter if they are in a great stack, just get him used to you moving his les and body around.  But, at this age whatever you do, make sure it's fun for him.

    If not, maybe it's just not his thing.  Definitely not the end of the world.

     

     

    Well he's over a year old and has already had a lot of training in other areas and does just fine, but I'll keep practicing. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    I didn't realize he's over a year.. the photo in your avatar is extraordinarily cute, but slighty misleading :o

    Fear stages can run through 18 months. Just do your best and if he doesn't enjoy showing talk to the breeder and see what they suggest.  Were you hoping for a show prospect or was it a situation where he was show quality so you thought you'd try it?   If you were hoping for a show prospect, defintely talk to the breeder, I'm sure they'll have some suggestions. 

    Another option is to stop working on it for awhile.  And reintroduce it in a few months and start from scratch.  You should continue to socialize him to the environments and handling and touching, but not "stack" per say.  When you reintroduce it do it in the middle of play and don't expect him to hold it.  Just hand stack him.... then keep playing.  And start lengthening it, but make sure you keep play and fun closely tied in.

    Talk to your breeder and let us know.  Good luck :)