Calorie requirement for........

How does he LOOK?  You should be able to easily feel the ribs, and at least see the edge of the last one.  Does he LOOK skinny?  Can you post a picture of him from the side and from above?  That'd make it easier to say.

My smallest is around sixty seven pounds, and now, just moderately active, but they get more than 1500 calories for breakfast alone.  But, you can't probably judge by that. 

He does look skinny, which is the way I prefer, you can not see his ribs though, cause he has 4"  wavy hair.....you can feel his spine very easy, along with rear hip bones, his ribs are easily felt, and you can feel the indentions between them. Vet thought he might be 2-3# underweight, but thought he looked fantastic....normally sees dogs way overweight.

Just wondering if I should up his calories a bit, seems hungry even after he eats.....like the food, or perhaps type of food just isn't doing it for him...it's not the same attitude of a dog just begging for more though, it's like he's REALLY not getting enough.

He's eating Innova large breed puppy, 2 cups per day...except tonight I gave him an extra 1/4 cup to see if that helps....wondering if it's time for an adult food with less carb's...the puppy food has 50% carb's, adult innova has 40-something....would that alone make a difference??

 2 cups doesn't seem like quite enough for a one year old. My german shepherd eats 2 1/2 cups a day she weighs 50 lbs. She's  2 1/2 years old.

stanton

53# moderately active 1yr old retreiver...can anyone tell me what that should be?

He's eating roughly 700-800 calories, perhaps even 900 on some days....but I don't know if that's enough

Only your dog can tell you what's enough.  Condition is pretty easily determined by putting your hands on him.  Hip bones should not be easily palpated (variable on a teenaged, active sporting breed, however) with good muscling between points of hips and tailbone, ribs should be easy to find, but you shouldn't be able to stick a finger between them.  there should be a slight dip behind the rib cage in his side, most easily viewed from the top, but it should not be hollowed out (again, this could happen in a young gangly male but shouldn't be allowed to go too far).

When a dog is over conditioned, it becomes difficult to palpate the spine.  The indentation behind the rib cage becomes straight, the femoral point is difficult to locate, and ribs disappear.  The area between tailbone and hip points becomes vague and rounded.  the neck appears shorter as fat increases size of shoulders and withers.

This is my favorite energy calculator.  Sometimes you do have to guess, and this gives a good idea of where to start.  http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.htm
 

 Most dogs "seem hungry" after gobbling dry kibble- the volume occupied by dry kibble is very small compared to the volume real food, which is mostly water, occupies. And wet food is what the dog's body was designed to consume. Giving dogs the food in a food-dispensing toy or giving the dog a nice bone to chew on after the kibble seems to help satisfy their appetites more than giving them more kibble.

Heathr6913

 2 cups doesn't seem like quite enough for a one year old. My german shepherd eats 2 1/2 cups a day she weighs 50 lbs. She's  2 1/2 years old.

But WHAT are you feeding?  Luke used to eat SIX CUPS a day of ProPlan when he was two years old.  When I switched him to Innova Evo I had to cut him all the way back to 3 cups a day.  Now that he's four, he's been cut back again to two cups a day.  For the record, he's a 90lb lab/shepherd.

The amount of what you feed will depend largely upon what it is you are feeding and how well your dog processes the ingredients.

As for the OP, I have to say that I've never been a calorie counter for my dogs.  If they look skinny, I feed more.  When Luke started to lose his waist (and went up to 93.5 pounds!!!) he went on a diet.  As a sporting dog, I really don't want him over 90lbs.  Weight can be so subjective, depending on how the dog carries it on his frame.

KarissaKS

 Weight can be so subjective, depending on how the dog carries it on his frame.

So true. I have the hardest time with Luna's weight. Seems like she is too heavy one day and then I cut her food back a hair and she is too thin 5 days later! When she is "fat" it's all on her ribs, but I can still feel hip bones, when she is thin she has no waist and no shape at all.

Agg, I attribute it to her being a little over a year old and intact. If it continues, however, I'll run her to the vet for some blood tests to make sure everything is normal.

For the dog in question, I say use the calculator provided above, or post pictures. for a dog with coat, it sometimes help to take the photos when they are soaking wet.

 I personally don't like to easily feel ribs, hipbones and spine on my dogs.  With the amount of fur on my two though, I have to dig to feel skin so finding bone should be more difficult.  I like to feel corded muscle on shoulders and hips though. 

Another thing to look at is the energy level.  You said he's moderately active, but is that the way you make it, or is that his natural energy level?  Does he tire easily?  Now that mine have settled down, they go hard for about an hour at the park then they mellow out.  They nap on the floor at home during the day and sleep all night, BUT they are ready to go at any point with a spring in their step. 

I personally don't like to easily feel ribs, hipbones and spine on my dogs.

There's a chart here:  http://www.purina.com/dogs/health/bodycondition.aspx - alas, too many vets do not display this very helpful and accurate chart which I'm sure Purina provides at no charge (Purina logo prominently displayed all over it, but whatever).

Fat deposits are easily palpable first in the first ribs, immediately after the shoulder joint.  There's also a series of muscles and ligaments here which should be easy to locate in a healthy dog.  If it just feel blubbery there, your dog is carrying too much weight, no matter what breed, coat type, or stage of life.  If you can't locate ribs through the coat, even on a heavy coated dog (I have a spitz and one very heavy coated BC who require the "pat test" frequently), then your dog is definitely in need of a lifestyle change of some sort.

Similarly, on a healthy dog, there will be connective tissue and muscle which make the first third of the vertebral structure much more difficult to palpate, but if you are sinking your fingers into fat there, that's out of place and unhealthy.  On a very thin coated and muscular dog, in very fit condition, you might see the lumbar vertebra and these will definitely be easily palpated.  Some of this is an illusion because of the extra muscle tissue such dogs will have, but some dogs truly carry no fat in this area naturally (sighthounds, for instance). 

You can tell the difference between an unhealthy weight, and extreme fitness, by examining the sacral structure between the pelvic points from above.  If these are visible, not to mention easily palpable, this dog is emaciated.  Otherwise, muscular and connective structures will obscure these bones on even an extremely fit dog.

 

 Soooo.... you mean it should be easy to feel spine and hips?  If I drag my fingers along my dogs I can feel bones.  But if I just run my hand over them I don't.  At least not individual ribs.  I can feel where the last rib ends, but thats about it.  Even when my dogs are on the thin side, I don't feel spine much.  My vet's dogs, which are racing dogs, look skinnier than my dogs, but even on them you can't easily feel ribs.  My dogs are more heavily muscled as they do more weight pulling being a 2 dog team.

To answer some questions:

Rivers's diet is Innova Large breed puppy food, very high quality food at 366 kcal/cup, 24% protein/12%fat

He gets several raw knuckle bones in a week, along with chicken wings on occasion, whole raw carrots, yogurt and other veggies, along with treats of either cooked chicken, turkey or beef hearts.

 He does seem to *run out of energy* if you will sooner then I believe he should when he's actively playing with other dogs, and yes overall I don't believe his energy is what I feel it should be for a young puppy

Just this afternoon we switched him to Healthwise puppy chicken/rice with only 30% carb's, 28% protein/18% fat kcal/cup at 406...so not too excessive, and calcium to phosphorus is perfect for not making him grow too fast.

That is not enough calories.  For a senior or inactive dog of that weight, the NRC requirements are 1087 kcals daily. 

For a young adult moderately active- active pet the NRC requirements are 1300-1450 kcals daily. 

lot of dogs don't seem to have read the NRC requirements for calories. Yes, you should be able to easily feel ribs on a healthy fit dog, and if the dog has a short coat you should be able to see at least a hint of ribs. Whether spine and hips can be easily felt seems to depend on breed. If you put your hand over the last rib and gently pinch up the skin there shouldn't be any fat to be felt. Same with neck- lots of dogs carry a lot of fat under the neck/shoulder skin and they shouldn't.