November 25 recall

Thanks, Dyan. It makes me even more glad that I have switched both pets to EP. Jade gets the Anchovy formula and Shadow has the Lamb.

I think it's interesting to note that Mars now owns Nutro. And, if the list says what I think it does, they also own Ol' Roy.

Another irony that does not escape me. One of my longest running objections to specifically feeding raw to my pets is the danger of parasitic infection, such as Salmonella. Animals like cats and dogs can suffer from it, in spite of having a different GI than humans, though, in actuality, the ph of a dog stomach and a human stomach are nearly similar when empty. PH only changes during digestion. Anyway, as it turns, many pets here have not had an infection from eating raw but, yet, here are some pets suffering from Salmonella from eating prepared commercial foods. Not exactly a glowing endorsement of feeding such. And it really is caveat emptor. We as a consumer must remain educated since the quality control in some of these companies is just a phrase and a job title, with no real meaning. How much you want to bet that the culprit ingredients, even though used by a canadian company, came from China?

Call me a redneck but maybe we should quit buying food product from China until they quit using poison. And if that means we should quit buying prepared wet or moist food off the shelf, then so be it. Before it's all over, we may be all making our own homecooked moist food just to avoid needless deaths. I'm not one to panic over one incident but this is getting ridiculous and statements that we are past all that danger would be, imo, premature and reckless. How many more pets have to suffer before we pull our heads out of the dark place?

I agree Ron.   Pretty much we should not be purchasing a lot of things from China anymore.  Our government has to be more vigilant in watching what is being sent over.

Interesting observation about raw /salmonella/prepared dog food.  I'll be interested so see what this conversation starts.  Mainly... I am figuring on giving Gibby the raw gizzard, heart and neck of todays turkey.  Why do I think I want to cook everything but the neck now???   HHHmmm!

I think you were wise in going over to EP...its a great food..I trust the company 100%. That said....I took Gibson off kibble at least for a while.  I want to see if perhaps it was causing him a little distress. Perhaps not...but he didn't have enough problems to be able to tell in the almost two weeks of feeding him home cooked one meal and frozen Bil Jac the other.  He seems to be doing well on it...but I KNOW he misses his EP...he is getting a few morsels as "goodboys!"

Happy Thanksgiving!

dyan

Mainly... I am figuring on giving Gibby the raw gizzard, heart and neck of todays turkey.  Why do I think I want to cook everything bug the neck now

dyan

Happy Thanksgiving

Happy Thanksgiving to you three, too.

As for the guts, you could compromise. Blanche or braise the goodies for a minute or two. It will kill off lesser bugs. And not all dogs will succumb to parasitic infection. Dogs have shed live Salmonella in their waste. And not suffered ill effects from it. Humans, however, who may come into contact with that might suffer. The greatest risk for a human is if the dog licks you right after eating, as they don't have any enzymes in the mouth that readily attack the bugs. The other greatest risk, perhaps greater than a doggy kiss is when handling waste. Cleaning the yard. When I de-poopify the yard and throw the bag in the trash, the next thing I do is wash my hands. I have a scooper and scraper to pick it up but I still wash my hands. Also, in my own yard, I don't pick it up while it is still fresh. A day or so to dry out makes it easier to handle and less infectious, in my opinion. Not that Shadow has had any such problem. But always following a safety protocol reduces any chance.

The third risk behavior for humans is in preparing and handling the raw food. Rinsing gets rid of surface bugs. In fact the greatest risk of contacting E. Coli or Salmonella is from handling commercially ground meat. That is because it came into contact with surfaces you have no control over. The counter and grinder where the butcher prepared it. As for handling meat at home, it's the same risk as when I prepare meat for DW and myself. And I handle that carefully. And clean down surfaces with cleaners we have nowadays that contain safe, diluted bleach for surfaces, hot soapy water for cutting tools. If I can, I cut and trim meat in the package it came in which it was wrapped.

If I can, I cut and trim meat in the package it came in which it was wrapped.

This actually increases the risk.  Unwrap the meat and discard the original packaging - this packaging has been in contact with the "high risk" areas of the meat the longest and the sooner it's gone the better.  Rinse the meat in cool, not warm, water.

Have a cutting board designated just for meat.  A color coded one really helps everyone remember which one it is:

Then as you say, use warm soapy water for cleanup afterwards, and follow with a bleach solution or a disinfectant labeled for effectiveness against salmonella and e. coli, or better (if it's labeled for HIV then it's the best possible).  Disinfectants must be left on for ten minutes to be fully effective.  I do a bleach bath for my utensils, and on the surfaces in the kitchen I use bleach and just wipe it dry a few minutes later.

Leftover raw meat should be bagged in NEW materials and frozen or put in the fridge if it's going to be used pretty soon. 

I don't get too crazy.  Meat that isn't ground is pretty low risk.  Eggs are pretty scary but our eggs are fresh from our ducks. 

Thanks for that, Becca. I guess the main point is that it's not more risky to feed raw or homecooked than it is to feed commercial food. And in some cases, where the food is good and the dog has a bad reaction, it just goes to show that their balancing act, while good, is not going to help every dog.

Granted, the recalls are as timely as they can be and bless the companies for being on top of that and willing to recall. But I think it would have been better to have a little qc before going to market. IOW, it appears as though their qc is not any better than we can manage in our homes with no spectrometer, petrie dishes, or sharply pressed white lab coats.

I know there's a risk, no matter how you feed your dog. I've read where some dogs couldn't handle total raw so a light cooking was in order. Or a homecooked recipe was a little unbalanced and one ingredient tweaked it just right. I've seen where dogs are incredible pictures of health on raw and I've seen x-rays of dogs that have swallowed a bone that got stuck and required emergency surgery.

Now, we have formula changes in Nutro, which is now owned by Mars and judging by their problem with the other foods they own, it is a bottom line affliction. Changing formulas to reduce cost and maximize profits for a company that is traded on the market. Buying ingredients because they are cheap, regardless of where they come from, rather than buying from more trustworthy sources. And rather than spend the money on qc and a better grade of ingredients or maintain formulas that did well, they will spend it on advertising and "spin." All because some yahoo fresh out of college with a business degree has to make a name for him/herself by cutting costs. If the President Elect doesn't scale back on incentives for companies to send it off-shore, then it will go off-shore, taking even more jobs with it. Not just the jobs of the people who work there but the jobs of tradesmen who build and maintain such facilities. So, I've made it from recall to politics and govt. policy and tax codes. Wow, that was fast.

But I agree with you that unground meat is usually low risk. And if one doesn't have a meat grinder, one can always dice or cube into pieces ready for stew or a little smaller. Although, I have seen Shadow eat a whole steak, before. He's got the skills to tear it into bite-pieces and chew a little bit and "down the hatch." Thanks for the heads up on the wrapping. I usually don't rinse meat and have yet to have a problem, which does show how relatively safe the meat is, in spite of hazards on my part.