Reality

i know, you will make the right decision, either way, and i have absolutely no knowledge of showing dogs and what it takes to do so. but i gotta say ditto on having both intact male and female in one house... the word that I used to describe my situation: ***AAAARRRRGHHHH******

either way... i also dont think waiting a bit will be the worst thing...

grab01

One thing to remember, though, is that this is a home familiar with spayed or single sex intact pets, not one familiar with keeping intact dogs of opposite sex/experienced show home. Homes familiar with this routine have the drill down.

 Everyone starts somewhere though - everyone was at the point where they had not had mixed sex intact dogs before. For now, I would worry more about the raising two puppies at once thing personally. That is something that I always strongly suggest against.

rwbeagles

Yes and so is Vick's or vanilla under the nose and numerous other things. I have heard just as many say THEY DON'T WORK.

 The stuff on the nose doesn't work IMO with dogs living together. So far the Chlorophyll seems to be the best bet and is suggested by some pretty knowledgeable people.

rwbeagles

Animated? have you SEEN a setter ring LOL. Obviously, not. You also are confusing non-animated with CRINGING.

The mind boggles. 

 Have you seen the Setter ring? Not a one of those dogs has the sort of coat that is described in the standard ;)

 Really all I suggested to the OP was that her dog may make a good show dog with different training methods. That all is not lost. The issue sounded like she did well with everything but the movement and IMO it sounded the the dog had issues with that due to the use of corrections. I've actually seen that problem with a dog of a different breed before first hand and while it took awhile, the dog was able to get over it. Is it appropriate that the dog is that soft? Probably not. But it happens all the time that dogs are shown and finish who have less than ideal temperaments. I don't have to like it to know that it goes on all the time.  You have repeatedly said yourself that this dog isn't being considered for breeding. So, if with some work the dog becomes a good show dog, what's the harm?

rwbeagles

You house...is not kle's house...your set up...is not hers. I am really wondering that your understanding of the situation is at this point. The OP has shared MANY issues with us in past that lead us to feel the way we do....perhaps you were not present for those, Again...the mind boggles.

 I find this post to have a rather rude tone in general, especially towards the OP. Much of my replies are directed at really broad generalizations about intact dogs and showing. To the OP I suggested to keep in mind that spaying is very final and people sometimes regret it later on. Also that all is not lost with her dog, if she wants to pursue showing. I don't personally know the OP's situation. Nor do I know your's or any other posters. It probably isn't good to get too involved with, too angry at or too judgemental of other people from behind a computer screen.  The mind boggles @@

AgileGSD

I find this post to have a rather rude tone in general, especially towards the OP.

It is not rude, IMO to point out that the OP has shared things here with us that allow us to know what we do about the issue. She has shared about the stray dogs, her child, her husband...and various other things, like many here, do. If some of us remember these posts and base our input...which was asked for on those...how is that rude?

You just said you are making generalizations,...that's fine...but you are also coming back in and trying to discredit what others are saying...minimize it, make into less...because you feel one way and not the other...based on your generalizations.

I and others here...are coming from a place where know kle at least a bit...she's shared a lot with us...and thus we feel we can make some suggestions based upon what was shared. If you do not agree that is fine...but the responses where you isolate quotes and cease being general and start being personal as to why what xyz is "so dramatic"...then accept not all will take that as respectful.

AgileGSD

Rough meaning the boy gets vocal, whiney, needy, stressed and doesn't always eat well. Of course there are cases of males being destructive to get to bitches but it certainly is all or even most who have such an issue.

Well, good for you. I would have to say that your situation is the exception, though.  I know a lot of people with sporting breeds and maybe they are just more virile and determined.  Anyway..... do you have a good containment system? Runs/kennel set up?  THAT would make a huge difference.  Containment, secure containment helps your peace of mind.  Before you encourage a novice show home to keep intact dogs and bitches together maybe you should inquire?

I do not have the proper set up to contain this situation for long periods (being more than a couple of days).. or the patience. I have a house with a crate and spare bedrooms to be used.  And one, adolescent intact male.. and let me assure you, the past 2 days have been absolutely exhausting.  I would do not envy anyone, without a professional set-up (AND EVEN THEN!) 2 intact males and a bitch in heat.

Sera_J

Well, good for you. I would have to say that your situation is the exception, though.  I know a lot of people with sporting breeds and maybe they are just more virile and determined.  Anyway..... do you have a good containment system? Runs/kennel set up?  THAT would make a huge difference.  Containment, secure containment helps your peace of mind.  Before you encourage a novice show home to keep intact dogs and bitches together maybe you should inquire?

It has to be me, and for that let me apologise in advance, Your comment makes a lot of sense it just came acrossed in a snarky fashion. So again I am sure it is simply my being tired.

However all of that being said I have maintained as many as 6 bitches and 4 males both intact and not with girls in season. The absolutel worst of it is the noise. Hounds just have to have Irish Blood in them since the moment a male is aware he will be denied he can begin a keening , wailing on my last fricking nerve sound that can last for weeks. In my home my girls are both intact and altered.  The trick of course is the most dominate one generally starts the mess and uproar and then a week later another comes in season, so we are not looking at 2-3 long weeks but more like 4-5!!  Males and their noise are always the least of a problem, the obvious is an accidental breeding , but in 40 years I have yet to have one. The less obvious and often unthought of is the battle of males. IT is not uncommon for even an altered male to linger in his looking a tad to long ticking off the intact male who thinks he may get lucky ! A dog fight is definetly the worst of owning a mixed bag of dogs. Strays etc. etc. etc

I think the point many of us have come from who are not insisting Lillie have an appointment with the vet right away is back to the basics.  Had Lillie been the most perfect in physical and emotional standards for showing her mom would be dealing with the issue of seasons anyway. SHould she opt to give Lillie a little time to mature she is not causing a disaster, she is simply exercising her options and showing some patience.  Already having two males she hoped to show makes the math simple. Before noticing Lillie's new attitude about going in the ring she had 3 different breeds and had already taken precautions to avoid mixing them via accidental breeding.  Nothing has changed in the math.  My big Boy Zion caught the judge's eye well before we went into the ring, she approached him throwing off warm fuzzies.  He decided to sit. and sit. and sit...... Believe me an adolescent RR who weighs nearly 93 pounds is not easily shifted when he wants to sit to converse with a new friend. We came in third after the judge did every thing she could to allow me a chance to get his act together. Zion found it all too funny and between yawning and offering his paw gat a ton of giggles from on lookers but the judge was put in a place she had to look elsewhere. I was not ticked, I did not leave the ring speed dialing a vet to have his jewels removed, I just shrugged and grinned, took the scoldings from older handlers and owners who were aghast at my easy going manner. He has only been in the ring 6 times. He is always in the ribbons and he is still for all intents a teenager. Stuff happens. I hope he tests out brilliantly and becomes our next stud muffin, but I am not going to get twisted up over a bad day or three. They are dogs, stuff happens.  Of course the Judge promptly dumped my very correct bred by the moment I walk in the ring. Again would jerking him around and getting PO have made HER happy?  I just don't have that much energy to keep every one else happy in the world.

I think we are all going with our gut and there are many strong feelings on the topic. I for one do not fault a young owner handler for giving their young dog a chance to come in to themselves. IT has already been said if she does not get the urge to prance about in the ring she will spay her in the future. Great thing about tommorrow, you have few regrets,  rotten thing about yesterday, stuff done can not be undone.

Bonita of Bwana

She did have three breeds, but they're all female, so no chance of accidental breedings (aside from what would occur if she were outside unattended) or dealing with an intact male

Bonita of Bwana

It has to be me, and for that let me apologise in advance, Your comment makes a lot of sense it just came acrossed in a snarky fashion. So again I am sure it is simply my being tired.

I think the point many of us have come from who are not insisting Lillie have an appointment with the vet right away is back to the basics.  Had Lillie been the most perfect in physical and emotional standards for showing her mom would be dealing with the issue of seasons anyway. SHould she opt to give Lillie a little time to mature she is not causing a disaster, she is simply exercising her options and showing some patience.

I think we are all going with our gut and there are many strong feelings on the topic. I for one do not fault a young owner handler for giving their young dog a chance to come in to themselves. IT has already been said if she does not get the urge to prance about in the ring she will spay her in the future. Great thing about tommorrow, you have few regrets,  rotten thing about yesterday, stuff done can not be undone.

Bonita of Bwana

 

 Good post Bonita ITA. 

 And no - I don't have kennel runs, just a fenced yard (able to be split into two yards if needed) and some crates in the house. Dogs and bitches can be separated even in an apartment if need be, although as has been mentioned they can get noisy. Males of my breed are sometimes accused of being "over sexed" and are very interested in girls. There certainly has been a fair share of accidental litters throughout the years in my breed (all breeds really). IME accidental litters generally happen because the wrong dogs are allowed out together, not males ripping through crates and walls. Everyone is a novice at some point, when does it become "ok" to own intact mixed sex dogs?

Everyone is a novice at some point, when does it become "ok" to own intact mixed sex dogs?

Maybe when you aren't so busy with kids, non-savvy hubby, and your intended show bitch isn't from a byb?  I think that people here may be opinionated, but they also know kle and, if my assessment of the members who have contributed to the argument for spaying is right, they have the best interests of kle, the dogs, and her family at heart.  As a casual observer and poster on this thread, I did not find Gina's comments rude, just very much to the point and honest, as always.