mistreated dog in agility class

Well I suppose I can bring it up to the trainer, but she will probably refer me to the owner who, knowing her, will just brush it off.  Even though this woman's treatment of her dog is extreme (abusive in my opinion) I'm sure there are a number of other people who take classes at the facility that use less than ideal methods (again in my opinion) and where can she draw the line?  This facility has only recently switched over to positive reinforcement in the last 5 years or so.  The previous owner starting switching over just before he passed away from cancer, and was for many years a traditional jerk and pull trainer.  So they are moving in the right direction, but they are not at the point yet where will outright discourage negative methods.  There are lots of dogs that train there with prongs and chokes, and even someone else in the agility class is using a shock collar to curb her dogs barking, but they teach their classes using mostly lure and reward technique.  BUT...as some of you mentioned...it does not seem safe for a dog to be wearing a choke around the agility equipment, and this dog is not the only one.  So that will leave me with the choice of leaving the class altogether or just learning to ignore it.  Leaving the class may not be an option because there are not many indoor, competition-minded agility facilities within drivng distance.  The only other one that I know of is taught by the same instructor, and even would take an hour to drive to.

I think I may still just ask the instructor about the danger of using the chokes and prongs around the equipment, I just dont' think I'm in any position to give ultimatums unfortunately.  Since Zoe and I are progressing a litte bit faster in this class than this woman and her GSD (just maybe because I am not choking and kicking her on the course!), maybe next session we will move on to the advanced class and I won't have to be distracted by my sympathy towards this poor dog.

sl2crmeg

Is there the same class, at a different time, that you could go to? Then at least you wouldn't have to see her.

Yes there is a Thursday night class actually.  When this session is over in a few weeks I might see if I can switch to that class if we are not moving up to the advanced class.

KarissaKS

Sorry, Liesje, but you aren't going to get me to say that it's "okay" for Kenya to be wearing any sort of slip/choke collar while performing on agility equipment.  At our club it is flat collars or collarless (for the trained dogs) ONLY.  Under no circumstances are sliding collars of any type allowed near equipment.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks I guess.  Our rules are NO collars that are too loose or have parts hanging off (chokes that are too big, Martingales, prongs, harnesses...) and absolutely NO tags ever.  All of the dogs in our class wear flat collars that are more loose than Kenya's (I've seen them slip them when they get too agitated) and have D-rings that are three times as big as the ring on Kenya's collar.

I think most people don't know the proper fit for a slip collar.  There should be no more than 1-1.5 inch slack when "tight" (as in, not choking, but not slip-able and two fingers fit under).  I see way too many dogs wearing giant chokers that are hanging down their chests.  I agree, that is not appropriate for agility, or anything really.
 

I would also wonder about the dog's comfort in wearing a collar so tight that it disappears into the hair.

Well, when she wore a flat collar, she was constantly itching at it b/c they make her fur stick out at weird angles or slide around on her neck.  I can fit 4 fingers under her choke, and since it's a choke I can slip it over her head one ear at a time (how else would it get on/off).  Any thin collar "disappears" into her hair, regardless of how tight it is.  She has a rolled leather collar that is too big (not enough buckle holes to fit it properly) which I can easily slip over her head and you can only see the buckle part when it's on her.  I would not let her wear this collar to agility even though it's a flat, b/c the ring is slightly larger and there's the extra tail that hangs off.
 

you can't convince ME that Kenya's choker is safe either. Chokers should never be on a dog unless the leash is attached, for one thing, and chokers just aren't safe around agility equipment. Tags on collars aren't safe either. Most people in our classes remove the dog's regular collar for the class and use a martingale that is removed while the dog is working.

So what are your thoughts on slip leads? I use them and practically every agility team does up here. Heck, I even got one of those fleece tug leads with a slip collar on the end.

... In our class what is permittable, flat buckle collars or leather collars. The primary reason.. to grab the dog by the collar.

Those Mendota leads?  Love em.

I don't trust choke chain collars for agility equipment.  If you MUST use a corrective collar for agility, as I did, I'd use a pinch.
 

Xeph

Those Mendota leads?  Love em.

I don't trust choke chain collars for agility equipment.  If you MUST use a corrective collar for agility, as I did, I'd use a pinch.
 

Yes, those leads. One time I went to Petsmart and I got all these bad looks because I was using this lead/collar combo. People judged me as an abusive owner and I heard one lady say this out loud....

"OMG! He is going to choke the hell out of the dog! Someone needs to tell him to remove that rope around his dog!"

In the cashier line, some guy asked if his kid could pet my dog and I said, "no" and the lady in front of me yelled at her kids to get in front of her as if my dog was going to take a piece of them. I just rolled my eyes.

jdata

So what are your thoughts on slip leads? I use them and practically every agility team does up here. Heck, I even got one of those fleece tug leads with a slip collar on the end.

Yep, we use those as well.  That's what I use the most, since it's easier to slip on/off than take off a leash and unbuckle a collar.  Dog goes from leashed and collared to nekkid it .5 seconds. 

Every instructor or school should have a standing written policy as to what is acceptable and what isn't.  For my classes, the rules are very clear, no abuse and no chokes (nylon or chain doesn't matter) because its a safety issue, no exceptions.  Students are told BEFORE they register what is allowed on their dogs and what is considered to be abusive by me.  My Place, My Rules.  If they don't agree, then they shouldn't sign up for classes.

It is also the place of the instructor to address concerns of the students, and to not blow them off or to avoid their job by sending you to confront another student on their methods.

I have had students be abusive to their dogs by my understanding and how I feel abuse is.  If it is what I consider a high rating of abuse I will say something then, by asking them not to do that.  But what I prefer to do, is to speak to them away from everyone else and explain why I believe what they are doing is abuse and to also reinforce that if they continue they will be asked to leave without a refund.

I had a woman who would grab her dogs muzzle and twist if he did anything she didn't like, I spoke to her twice at length.  The second time I addressed the problem I warned her that if she did it again, she would be asked to leave the class immediately.  She did it again and I told her to 'Get Out, Now and please Don't come back'.  As the rest of the class stood there in shock. 3 strikes your out.  Your out on the first strike if it's bad enough to warrent that..................

You guys are right, goign to another class at the same place wouldn't change anything.  I'm just figuring out what to do at this point because I'm afraid  if I want to continue with agility I have to train at this place.

I was planning on mentioning it to the instructor tonight but the class was so hectic and ran 15 minutes overtime into the next class I didn't get a chance.  But....I did notice that this GSD not only had on a choke collar, but a prong AND some other type of collar with a blinking red light (a shock collar?) ALL AT THE SAME TIME  and while running the course!!!

A prong?!?  In agility?!?!  Now I would also need to ask your instructor HOW she allows that....  If the dog is so out of control it needs a slip, a prong, and an e-collar, maybe they should start with basic obedience.

A prong?!? In agility?!?! Now I would also need to ask your instructor HOW she allows that

Strauss wore a pinch collar for a few months.  He had his CD already and we had started our CDX work....prey drive proved too much for him.  It was either put him on a pinch, or quit.
 

KarissaKS

Choke chains are a hazzard in agility, as the dog could easily get hung up and suffocate or otherwise be injured.

 I don't think you can say that chokes can *easily* get caught on equipment and kill or injure dogs. It would have to be a pretty freak accident

 Talk to the instructor about the owner in question and your feelings about the treatment of the dog. FWIW Most SchH people I know use motivational methods and even if that is the excuse - agility isn't SchH and the owner should be following the class lessons.