vomiting immediately after eating? - update page 6

    • Gold Top Dog
    Sorry for the late update -- we were at the vet from before our 7pm appt until 9 and then had a few stops to make on the way home. Last appt on a Friday night just isn't the time for something QUICK! There was also a family there with a really sick kitty (they are also a 24hr vet) so of course everything was off schedule.

    Anyway -- Liked this vet a zillion times better, she was nice, explained everything and the WHY, didn't try to push only more RX foods -- in fact wants him OFF the z/d and on a simple bland diet, chicken and rice or the like. She feels the z/d often times causes GI issues like diarrhea and doesn't want that to complicate things. I mentioned Sammy used to have a bowel movement every 12 hrs but since being on z/d it's like once every 36 and she was like "yep z/d can do really strange things to certain dogs." The z/d has it's place, and we may or may not come back to it in the future with allergies, but the main concern is the PANCREAS. Which didn't make it across from the other vet. I also feel that we need to focus on the more important things and come back to allergies later.

    We're going to put him on a totally bland diet, check the levels again in a week or so after the change. She totally pushed the probiotics as well, just like Callie said, which was a big thing compared to our previous vet. She also said that after we clear this up, THEN we could put him on a commercial diet and do something akin to an elimination diet (or make up a recipe from monica segal, etc, and homecook). She was way cool with that, whereas the last vet was all about the RX food and that's it. Much happier with her. I think she would prefer the homecooked, honestly, but something like a california naturals or such would be OK -- but all depends on how his pancreas levels react. At least a homecooked diet would allow me to control the fat levels better -- a limited ingredient diet AND low-fat, in a kibble? Not so easy. BUT, she thinks the allergies are more environmental anyway -- since he only chews his back paws. She said that's more likely to be environmental since with food allergies he would probably be chewing all four. I'm not convinced, yet, but once we get a frost (which might be sooner than we think, it gets into the 40s overnight sometimes now) we could see if they clear up then as well.

    She also suggested an ultrasound, and we were all for it until I found out it's $400. So, we're going to see how he does. She suggested it just to put me at ease, more than thinking it was completely necessary. We could (and may) do xrays, but basically she was very encouraged that we're moving in the right direction since he hasn't vomited in several days. She also said we're doing good at keeping him hydrated and all that, and he seems good. If she really felt we needed an ultrasound, I would do it, but didn't seem concerned if we waited until we re-checked the bloodwork before going ahead with that. After u/s and x-rays we would move to a barium test if we wanted, and sometimes the barium alone helps the dog out.

    The only thing was if he vomited, to fast him for 12 hours rather than keep feeding him. Honestly, although it makes sense, when the dog vomits 3 meals in a row, it's a bit hard to NOT want to feed him, but resting the gut would have been better. Intellectually, I know this but hard to know what to do at the time. She also wants to keep him on the pepcid but instead of 20mg once a day, to make it 10mg twice a day.

    She seemed a little surprised at both Cipro AND amoxicilan, but we're to finish both those out as directed. He'll be nearly done with them by the time we re-test his blood next weekend.

    So, all in all, we're not doing things drastically different -- but we have an action plan, which is what I needed -- and a vet who truly seems to understand where I'm coming from and help me help Sammy. Every person there was totally nice, and willing to answer each and every question (not like the old vet who said he was going to check into something and never come back, just send a tech in. I wasn't DONE yet!) and just overall very accommodating. They aren't much more expensive than any other vet we've been to, but they are much, much closer and I'm rather happy with them so far.

    Thanks for all the good wishes! We greatly appreciate them, and keep your fingers crossed that he continues to do better and that his blood tests in a week also come back at least a little better. We'll have a better plan of action once we can establish a trend better, so I'm anxious to get some more test results. I feel so much more confident in our ability to help him, that's for sure.

    ETA -- Karen just saw your post. Thanks for the information. The new vet wasn't concerned about any values being off in his blood work other than amylase and the lipase. Apparently allergies can send several of the numbers off as well. Until we can get his system calmed down, it's hard to trust a lot of it unless it's really, really out of whack. I guess these weren't off enough to cause concern unless they stay that way.
    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm just so glad that you found someone you feel comfortable with and trust. It's a huge step in the right direction. I hope that the new plan gives you some answers and direction for how to deal with all of this. I hope you're feeling better tonight.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm so happy that you found someone who is willing to spend the time explaining everything to you! 

    Fingers crossed for a quick recovery for Sammy!

    • Gold Top Dog

    good -- on *many* levels!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    NicoleS
    She feels the z/d often times causes GI issues like diarrhea

    Yup, it can.  Willow can't eat it alone or that's what happens to her.

    So, happy for you and Sammy that you like your new vet.  It really does make all the difference. 

    I read that some of his blood levels were off and just wanted to let you know many things can cause platelets to be off.  The most common is they clump and it's hard to get an accurate reading that way.  So, until it's rechecked not something to really be worried about. 

    Also, they just put Willow on this stuff called Forti Flora.  It's a powder that you mix into the meals.  Helps with digestion, gas, diarrhea, etc. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sounds like a good new start on getting Sammy better. :)

    • Gold Top Dog
    willowchow
    Also, they just put Willow on this stuff called Forti Flora.  It's a powder that you mix into the meals.  Helps with digestion, gas, diarrhea, etc.


    They wanted to give me that too, but she said it was only a probiotic. I already went out and got a probiotic, so I chose not to buy it at that time. It was also $40, so I wanted to look up about it and see if there was anywhere else I could get it. Is it more than just a basic probiotic?

    Sammy seems good this morning. I made him chicken and rice but the butt muncher only wanted to pick through all the rice, each and every grain it seems, toss it all around and search for more chicken. I now need to go clean my kitchen of mushy, overcooked rice goo. Better than vomit, though!
    • Gold Top Dog

      I'm really glad that you found a vet you feel comfortable working with; I changed vets a few years ago too. Having a vet that listens to you and addresses all your questions and concerns makes a huge difference.

    NicoleS
    She feels the z/d often times causes GI issues like diarrhea and doesn't want that to complicate things

      I fed Jessie z/d for an elimination diet and also while I was waiting for the consultation with Monica and had to give her pumpkin or her stools would be very soft.

    NicoleS
    The only thing was if he vomited, to fast him for 12 hours rather than keep feeding him. Honestly, although it makes sense, when the dog vomits 3 meals in a row, it's a bit hard to NOT want to feed him, but resting the gut would have been better. Intellectually, I know this but hard to know what to do at the time.

      I'm surprised your other vet didn't recommend fasting. Jessie didn't vomit but my vet had me fast her for 24 hours when her enzymes were high to rest her pancreas. She took it better than we did.

     

    NicoleS
    I think she would prefer the homecooked, honestly, but something like a california naturals or such would be OK -- but all depends on how his pancreas levels react. At least a homecooked diet would allow me to control the fat levels better -- a limited ingredient diet AND low-fat, in a kibble? Not so easy.

      If you use ground meat, it mixes much better with the rice so Sammy can't pick it out. Jessie gets boiled ground turkey mixed with the rice and she loves it; 97% lean ground turkey is best. 99% lean ground turkey is too little fat. You can also find ground chicken. Boiling the meat actually removes some of the fat. I found that you don't have to cook the rice until it's super mushy; just until a piece gives easily when you squeeze it. Freezing the food and then thawing it makes the rice less sticky; Jessie doesn't like sticky rice. 

      Jessie's diet is only 4% fat; if her test results improve Monica will add a little more fat to her diet. What has surprised me is how great her coat looks in spite of how little fat she's getting, but she does get 1,000 mg of wild salmon oil daily. When a urinalysis last month indicated that she may have very early kidney disease,  Monica adjusted the phosphorus and sodium in her diet. I don't think there's any RX diets that would work for both conditions.

     Looks like Sammy's in much better hands now.

     

      

    • Gold Top Dog

    jessies_mom
    I fed Jessie z/d for an elimination diet and also while I was waiting for the consultation with Monica and had to give her pumpkin or her stools would be very soft.

    I didn't want to add pumpkin since I read they should be on low-ish fiber as well and pumpkin might be too much?  I also didn't want to upset anything else.  I have some pumpkin here, actually, just afraid to give it.  He also won't eat it unless it mixed into something.  I tried freezing it in ice cubes but he wont touch those.

    jessies_mom
    I'm surprised your other vet didn't recommend fasting. Jessie didn't vomit but my vet had me fast her for 24 hours when her enzymes were high to rest her pancreas. She took it better than we did.

    That vet didn't recommend much of anything, hence my issues.  I've heard, now, resting the pancreas would have been far more beneficial. I'm sure Sammy would have been fine, but he certainly doesn't let me forget dinner time so I'm sure it would have been tough on me.

    jessies_mom
    If you use ground meat, it mixes much better with the rice so Sammy can't pick it out. Jessie gets boiled ground turkey mixed with the rice and she loves it; 97% lean ground turkey is best. 99% lean ground turkey is too little fat. You can also find ground chicken. Boiling the meat actually removes some of the fat.

    I routinely buy 93% ground turkey -- wonder if boiling that would remove enough fat?  It's much more expensive for the lower fat, so for us to eat, we use the 93% since it's always cheap at Costco -- $2.29/lb. It's also all they have, LOL.  Also good to know about unsticking rice.  I'll try freezing it.  It's not super mushy but it's definitely sticky. And after being in the fridge, even if i warm it up, it's like a brick! 

    jessies_mom
    Jessie's diet is only 4% fat; if her test results improve Monica will add a little more fat to her diet.

    Is this something Monica recommended, or your vet, or as low as you could get it?  I can't really find anything that shows a "perfect" amount, so I'm guessing it varies based on how the dog does?

    I'm really considering a recipe prepared like you have -- but I'm not quite sure enough yet of what's going on, to try it.  But definitely a good use for nearly $85 in z/d, if we need a transition food!  What kind of information do you give Monica when she's preparing a recipe? 

    Thanks for all the help and advice; it helps having a sounding board of folks who have been there, done that.  I'm anxiously awaiting the next set of test results.  If it wasn't $85 I would have had them run one this weekend and next, but we're gonna give it until next weekend since he really hasn't been low-fat until now.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I'm glad to hear that the new vet had some better fitting suggestions for you. How is his tummy feeling, this evening?

     

    Emma is backwards. Z/D constipated her, at first. I started dampening the kibble, and using a little canned Z/D, and she's totally fine, now.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jennie_c_d
    How is his tummy feeling, this evening?

    Probably a little empty Smile  Honestly, he seems fine.  He never seemed really bad, just a bit "off" but he was more active today.  We went to visit grandma and the kitties so I'm sure that perked him up, too.  I made him chicken and rice, but he didn't eat all of the rice so he's a few calories short of what he normally eats.  It was cute watching him move each grain of rice in search of chicken, until I had to clean the floor afterwards.

    Not completely sure if it was the z/d (we only started it last Saturday) but since then, he totally wouldn't have a bowel movement for 1-2 days, and then would go but it would be different.  Different shades, different consistency and kind of... shiny? greasy?  Seems that can happen with pancreatitis, so not sure if it was the food or not, but seems like I should have seen it before we even tested if that was what was causing the vomiting.  But the new vet felt it wasn't appropriate, right now, to do that diet since we should try to rest his gut, and sometimes it takes a while to adjust to z/d (as you've noticed!).  It makes sense, too, since it isn't exactly low-fat.  I do have quite a bit left (2/3 of a bag and 5 1/2 cans) so it's there as an option depending on what we see.

    I think it's going to be hard to figure much out, until we re-test his levels and see where we're at. 

    His paws do seem better the past few days.  not sure if the z/d could work so fast that he stopped licking within a few days (they weren't incredibly bad as it was, but definitely less fur and some redness, very clear that they itched him as well as more overall body scratching).  He only has ever bothered the back paws and hasn't touched his front ones. 

    • Gold Top Dog

     It did work that fast, for Em. It took a while to see the full improvement I saw (especially since I was feeding her from my hand, and she's allergic to me!), but I definitely saw a change in that first week.

     

    If you boil, boil, boil the rice (like use 3x the water you should), it'll get super mushy, and it'll be harder to remove the chicken from. I always cook it in chicky water, too, and that seems to help. You could run it through a food processor, if you have one, to make it more uniform.

     

    The things we do, LMAO.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jennie_c_d
    The things we do, LMAO.

    I hear ya!

    Emma is a dog, in her own category, it seems.  You have quite the special one, there Smile  It'll be interesting to see how the allergies pan out while we get the rest of him on track.  His paws only started acting up in August, whereas they had been fine since last November/December, and I can't think of anything that changed before the vomiting food-wise to set it off.

    No food processor, and I draw the line there, since any decent one is pricey!  Maybe I'll ask Santa for one!  I have a blender, but it's hard to get it to make a smoothie so somehow I think mixing chicked would be too much for it.

    I thought about cooking it in chicken water, but it looked kind of greasy so I didn't want to add fat back in, that I had just boiled off.  Maybe I'll get out the cheese grater and see if I can't just get the chicken smaller and more integrated.  He's a food hound, so I can't imagine he'll go without eating it all for long.  He's never not finished a bowl of anything, other than veggies, since we've had him!

    • Gold Top Dog

     Ok, LOL. Are you ready to hear what kind of incredible dork I am???

     

    If you chill the chicken broth, the fat will harden, and you can pour it through a strainer. I don't know, for certain, if that is good enough for pancreatitis (since I've been blessed to never have to deal with that), so somebody else can chime in, but I've done it, for general tummy ick.  I spike Em's water, a lot, since she doesn't drink enough. I use strained beef broth, and she loves it! Of course, it must be made from scratch, since no store bought broth is good enough for the dogs *eyeroll*

     

    Is it starting to cool down, there? We've had some cooler days (like low 90s LOL) and the fall allergy dogs are starting to itch. It could as easily be that his paws stopped itching because some of the summer plants are dying off.

    • Gold Top Dog

    LOL @ the chicken broth.  I thought about just buying a can of low-sodium broth, and diluting it.  He was hungry enough this AM to eat a decent amount of rice, even while DH was cutting up the chicken.  Not nearly what I thought he would need for calories for the day, but he's a food hound so he must be doing OK with what he's eating.

    jennie_c_d
    Is it starting to cool down, there? We've had some cooler days (like low 90s LOL) and the fall allergy dogs are starting to itch. It could as easily be that his paws stopped itching because some of the summer plants are dying off.

    It's been highs of around 70s and in the 60s, with lows in 50s and even down to 40s.  I would expect a frost soon, if it continues like this.  Only two or three times all month did we hit 80, even.  It's actually been kind of rainy the past few days, so that tends to lower allergies as well since nothing's flying around (if tha'ts what it is).  The new house also has a vacant lot behind it, with tons of growth, so I'm sure that's not helping compared to when we lives places with no vegetation.  Not sure how to control that, but the fence stops about 5 feet away so at he can't have direct contact.

    Honestly, feels like we never warmed up for the summer!  Our fancy new thermostat says I've used the filter 115 hours since may --and a bit of that was HEAT when we first moved in!  100 hours is probably what, 15-20 days of a/c?  It's been a very strange summer, here in Pittsburgh.