Something is up with 'the beast'.... (Bugsy)...update at the end nothing significant

Are they screening for tick related diseases?  ie, lymes, ehrlichia, Rocky Mountain spotted fever

Sometimes those type diseases have weird presentations.

tick disease was the first thing that came to MY mind with the muscles, personality stuff, etc. 

calliecritturs

tick disease was the first thing that came to MY mind with the muscles, personality stuff, etc. 

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who thought that!

 May not be bad to have his hips done to check for HD, he's a big boy and it's common in most big breeds as you know. But that still doesn't explain the other symptoms.

 Goodness, Karen!! I'm sorry -- I have no idea what it could be, but I'm hoping whatever it is is simple and he's better in no time. Thinking of you guys!!

 Thanks ladies I did think of that BUT he has never had a live tick latched on him.  I have once taken a dead one off him, in the spring I think.  But it hadn't engorged or anything.

Do I need a separate test for tick disease?

BTW Lyme's is unusual here, erlichosis (sp?) common, RMSF VERY common (highest in the US), and something they term STARI (which is similar to Lyme's)

Honest I would love this to be something we can treat!

Edit because Lani jumped in when I was typing.  Xrays are in the future as you know I didn't want to do it because he'll have to be put out for them

Not all vet's put dogs out for it... and the sedative is usually ketamine, so it's not like they are out-out, just sedated.  I'd do hips and knees on it, it's cheaper to get it done all at once.

If you want to, find a dog show in your area and take him in for hips, they don't usually sedate on show grounds and can do the xray there.  With Bugsy's size it maybe easier, but i can also give bad results, as there is laxity in the joint/muscles that isn't usually there.  The other thing is... make sure your vet is good at it, you can get really bad readings if your vet isn't skiled at hips.  I know you want to trust them that they are excellent at it, but many, many vets are not good at it.

http://leerburg.com/hipart.htm

Look through that. You may say "Oh, but I don't need an OFA" and you don't. But, read through the messages (towards the bottom), some vets try to get hip replacement done on dogs that do not need it, because of bad positioning.  That's why it maybe good to talk to breeder friends in the area, they will refer you to someone who is experienced at hips, it will make ALL the difference.

 Lani thank you for that very informative.  Now as a rescue mutt sort of person i need to figure out how I find a vet that does good xrays.  email me if you know any one that can help, OK?

Gosh Karen, I hope you get some answers soon for Bugsy.  I have a few thoughts but nothing that's really helpful.  I don't feel that the behavior issues are necessarily linked to the limping and pain.  But then again, it's entirely possible and you can only start with the ruling out process, expensive as that can be.  I've had dogs' hips xrayed without putting them under.  Belle didn't even have a sedative.  It helps to have a Vet with experience and good techs to help.  Ask a Lab breeder in your area, most of them will have a good Vet they can recommend for xrays. He is a large dog and it won't be a surprise if he has joint issues. 

The accident in the house could be unrelated and a random, full bladder episode.  It happens.

The white dog aggression may be getting worse before it gets better.  The SA is not completely unexpected as he spends a lot of time with you and naturally feels a bit lost when you are gone.  The recent situation you have all been going through also has to effect him, he's very tuned into how everyone is feeling.  Please keep us posted, as we all love our Bugsy. :)  Er, your Bugsy. lol

   I don't have any suggestions Karen but I'm hoping you find out what's causing the problems very soon. It may be a good idea to restrict his activity until you find out why he's limping. A few years ago Jessie spent an hour chasing squirrels in a rain soaked field (soft ground). The next day she was limping so I took her to the vet. He checked her for a torn ACL, which she didn't have, and said to rest her for a week,  then start with short walks and gradually increase her exercise. Her sore muscles healed nicely. Fell better soon Bugsy!!!!!

 Thank you Jackie and Janice.  Jackie I know I am grasping at straws with regard to the white dog thing and pain, but it really is so bizarre, I figured I should at least look into it.

And I am going to rest him, I've already asked one owner who brings their dog down for a play to skip us this week. I may take him swimming if the limp subsides a bit.  I just took him out for his last of the night and he is still limping, again no hesitation to do stairs up or down but clearly being careful with that back right leg.   he did feel well enough to look for toads though  If he can't be calm during the day I will crate him.  Although it wasn't this bad on Tuesday when we saw the vet, he did rule out knee issues.

I'm actually, at this point, terrified to see what his hips look like............Jackie I'll try to find a decent lab breeder.  I just don't know where to start to be honest but I will take some time and start the process.  I'm wondering if just going to the vet school and getting them done there would increase the chance they do it right.

Break out the cheese cause I got the whine............I just want my boy back.  September 1st is the day we anointed as his birthday and he is only going to be 4, sigh.  It seems too soon for leg problems and for the crazy beast to have to slow down drastically

kpwlee

I'm wondering if just going to the vet school and getting them done there would increase the chance they do it right.

I would definitely do this if it's an option.  I agree with Janice that resting him until there is no limp is a good idea.  Soft tissue injuries can drag on longer than necessary if you don't rest him completely.  Good luck with that....  A friend and I were just talking about dogs and their various illnesses, conditions, injuries, etc.  One of her dogs is recovering from a cervical injury. Her very active dog.  We looked at each other and both at the exact moment said "it's always something".  lol because crying is just no fun.  *Clinking whine glasses with you*

Hi Karen.  I don't have anything scientific but wanted to share my similar experience with Willow.  Now, Willow is twice Bugs age and much worse behavior wise. 

First, I am definately in agreement with checking for tick diseases.  He could of had a tick on him, it fed and then fell off without you seeing it.  The symptoms you describe are very similar to Willows and she had Lyme.  The Lyme test they can do as a quick test in the office because it's with the heartworm test now.  But, RMSF and erlichia they will send out. 

That said, he could also have a joint issue too. Willow had both--tick disease can bring this on--which would make sense with your Bugs because he is young to have the joints degenerating on their own. 

Our vet recommended an orthopedic surgeon and I took a day and we went to see him.  He watched her walk, examined her, then sedated her and manipulated everything and also did x-rays.  We ended up finding out that the arthritis that we were sure was in the lower part of her legs because she always held a paw up--was in her shoulder!  And, oddly, the paw she always held up, the opposite shoulder was worse!  So, go figure why she was holding up the other paw??!!! 

She was sedated and she was groggy but walked out on her own steam and mostly slept for the rest of the day.  She was fine the next day though.  The other thing I'm thinking is, it all depends on the level of pain and the temperment of the dog if they sedate.  So, possibly, Bugsy might not even need it at all. 

Anyway, good luck!!! 

Karen, your vet should be able to call the lab to add the tick screen.  If you're looking to have good x-rays shot, I would look towards a radiologist, an orthopedic surgeon, or the vet school. 

kpwlee

I'm actually, at this point, terrified to see what his hips look like............Jackie I'll try to find a decent lab breeder.  I just don't know where to start to be honest but I will take some time and start the process.  I'm wondering if just going to the vet school and getting them done there would increase the chance they do it right.

Getting correct films is super, super important.  Honestly I would not have just any vet check hips, I would want a radiology specialist or something like that.  I've never had my regular vets do them, we go to a vet nearby who helped start PennHIP, was on the OFA panel, and is a world expert in hips and elbows.  Finding a good lab breeder might be a good idea, they would know who to use for x-rays.