CHF - Update 6/23/09

aww I''m sorry. hugs to Maghee...no idea on the food. Does Sodium equal salt? I had the devil of a time finding a salt free food for my bitches in whelp....it was like..in EVERYTHING I looked at in some form or another at Petco/Petsmart some years back.

I bet someone here knows a bunch tho!

Sending good vibes for Maghee.

Deb W.

I cooked for Ms. Socks (that's when I went back to cooking for them full time, in fact).  It was just plain easier than running my legs off.

Hopefully you can get connected with a vet who does both acupuncture AND the Chinese herbals.  Socks was on 2-3 and man, they helped.  Yes, she took Lasix (go buy the bitch's britches and continence pads NOW -- soft nylon tape - cut the pads in half or thirds and seal the ends with the nylon tape and keep them in the britches!).  Socks wore britches for 6 1/2 years.  The big problem was remembering to take them OFF her when she went outside. 

But there were herbals (like Shishandra) that helped her hold her urine a bit better and other herbals that helped the heart function without having to go full tilt on pharmaceuticals. 

CHF is manageable for quite a while.  Like I said -- Socks came to us at 10 1/2 with this massively enlarged heart and lungs that looked like swiss cheese (from heartworms -- BAD heartworms).  It took me a year to treat the heartworm and then we dealt with this massively abused heart for years.  And it was SO bad to start with  ...

I'm sorry it's not better news, but I'm glad you have a diagnosis you can now work with and maintain, if that makes sense.  And I'm glad Maghee has you!!!

 Oh-- btw -- Co-Q-10.  As much of it as you can afford.  Billy's on 100 mg twice a day (for only a grade 3 murmur) and Dr. D put Kee on 60 mg twice a day just cos she's aged.  It helps the cells actually GET oxygen -- it is a BIG HUGE help.  Walgreens often runs sales on it if you watch.  I'd love to always do a better brand but sometimes you just do whatcha can!!  Go to 3 times a day with it if you can.  It really does help -- I think you'll see a difference in her panting just 1/2 hr even after you give it.  We did with Socks.

gradyupmybutt

Is there kibble that is low sodium?  

Can't help with kibble, but here are a few of links on CHF:
http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#heart
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/cardiovascular-diet/?main_page=Jan2003.php
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~pdownes/scraps/alwaysloved.html

Monica Segal could help with a home diet (consultations or publications):
http://www.monicasegal.com/catalog/writings.php

 I buy Roo's CoQ10 in powder form from iherb. It's the cheapest I've been able to find. I also have her on Hawthorn Berry, one capsule a day. I just open it and mix it in her food, along with the powdered CoQ10. I saw an improvement in her within a month or so. I thought I was going to have to put her down last March, and she's still here and going strong over a year later. I also have her on a diuretic. She turned 14 in April.

sl2crmeg

Magheeeee! My princess!

I know mine too!  I cried most of yesterday after we got the word.  Then Maghs would shoot me this look.  It's the look that says, "will you stop the water works?!?!"  She really is my best doggie friend. 

Thanks everyone for the good vibes.  They do help so much.

Callie, we went out yesterday & got some bitches britches & some cute ones too.  Pictures will follow once I get them.  No plain diapers for my girl. *grin*

I DO believe that the Lasix really helped with her coughing.  About 2 hours after her first dose via injection she ceased coughing & was breathing much easier.

I believe that Dr. B is also an acupuncturist or has one in her office.  Thanks for the tip on Co-Q-10.  I'll keep an eye open for it after I meet with Dr. B. 

Thanks Janet so much for the links.  I KNEW I could count on you to pop up with some links. :) Thanks!

Stay tuned for more questions. :)

Hawthornberry was one of the ones Socks' was on AND Billy also takes it.  (I just haven't said much about the heart stuff but anything hard on the blood and drugs hard on the kidneys and liver is GONNA damage the heart.) 

Don't despair -- really do NOT.  It is manageable.  There is SO much they can do now -- both for dogs and humans. 

If you want more in-depth directions on getting the pads in the britches holler.  It IS an *art* (smile).  Put the pad WAY up almost covering the tail hole (look where her urethra comes out and you'll see what I mean).  In fact what I ultimately did for Socks -- I'd make sure the pad was about 1 - 1 1/2 inches LONGER than I needed.  Then you FOLD it down at that end and position it so it's WAY up almost covering the tail hole -- that way BOTH sides of that piece are absorbent (and that's where she'll "leak" anyway)

I fooled with all kinds of tape -- but the nylon First Aid tape worked best for me -- you don't want 'waterproof' or it will just let urine spill over.  The nylon didn't impair the urine being absorbed at either end I had it on.  But I got so I'd buy the thickest ones and the longest ones they had and then cut them down (cos they're expensive)  I tried EVERYTHING -- I tried diapers I tried ... *rolling eyes* -- trust me, I did this for 6 1/2 years *grin*  I used to tell David I was more of an expert on incontinence pads than I was women's supplies LOL

Oh Annie, I am just seeing this.  Sending you the biggest, strongest hugs I have and please, please don't despair.  You'll get a plan worked out and you'll feel better once that happens.  Give her an ear rub for me. :)

JackieG

Oh Annie, I am just seeing this.  Sending you the biggest, strongest hugs I have and please, please don't despair.  You'll get a plan worked out and you'll feel better once that happens.  Give her an ear rub for me. :)

Ear rubbies delivered. I think she even purred.  Thanks for the hugs.  I know it will be much easier once the plan is worked out & I get into a habit.  I'm thinking that Grady & Aspen will prolly benefit from some of the changes I see coming down the road; homecooking.  That way I can control the amount of sodium they ingest.

Callie, so far she's been good about holding her pee until we go outside.  I have newborn diapers ready for her until her britches come in. 

JackieG

Oh Annie, I am just seeing this.  Sending you the biggest, strongest hugs I have and please, please don't despair.  You'll get a plan worked out and you'll feel better once that happens.  Give her an ear rub for me. :)

Annie you know we are sending our very, very best healing vibes Maghee's and lots of strength to you!

gradyupmybutt

Callie, so far she's been good about holding her pee until we go outside.  I have newborn diapers ready for her until her britches come in. 

Ms. Socks would have told you "Harumph .... those are NOT built for a girl dogs butt!!!" LOL

I used to have to tape a SIGN to the back door knob "TAKE OFF HER JEANS" because after a while you get SO used to seeing them on them that you FORGET to take them off, they zoom outside and squat and then do the "two year old toddler full-diaper waddle" back to you and YOU will feel like a Class A HEEL because they feel so horrible at having filled them LOL  I used to have to put a new sign up periodically because David and I would get too used to "seeing" it LOL

HOWEVER -- another thing to tell you -- Lasix, long term causes the skin to become VERY fragile and paper thin.  They can be easily "hurt" -- that takes a long time to manifest but even tho a dog's skin isn't as fragile as a humans it does happen.

Did I mention Co-Q-10??? (sorry -- I've typed too many of these posts lately).  It really DOES help.

calliecritturs

I used to have to tape a SIGN to the back door knob "TAKE OFF HER JEANS" because after a while you get SO used to seeing them on them that you FORGET to take them off, they zoom outside and squat and then do the "two year old toddler full-diaper waddle" back to you and YOU will feel like a Class A HEEL because they feel so horrible at having filled them LOL  I used to have to put a new sign up periodically because David and I would get too used to "seeing" it LOL

LOL, I did the same thing with our girl Magic and made a sign so we wouldn't forget.  It helped when I got her some britches that weren't black like she was, duh.  She was mortified when she had an accident in the house or filled her britches because we forgot to take them off. 

Annie, keep us posted, we are thinking of you both and hope the cardiologist visit goes well.

Oh poop!  I typed a nice update & the cyber gremlins grabbed it.

Short version:  Maghee has Chronic Valvular Disease, CHF & collasping trachea.  To me the trachea is a non-issue since I NEVER walk her using her collar.  She's on 2 meds now:  a beta blocker (kinda like DH is) & lasix.  Dr. B. wants her off weaned off the lasix & will start her up on Enalapril.  I will be consulting with an herbalist (Grad of the Chi Institute, BTW) who is associated with Dr. B for supportive herbs for Maghs.

She will then have various follow-ups in 4, 6 & 10 months.

Thanks everyone for your vibes & advice.  I'm not sure what I would have done without them.