High fiber or low fiber diet?

    • Bronze

    High fiber or low fiber diet?

    3 weeks ago today, Pepper (16 lbs) had surgery to remove her chronically infected anal glands.  During the latest infection as well as after surgery, she suffered from frequent bouts of straining and constipation, so I fed her about 1/2 TB canned pumpkin with each meal, with mixed results (poop was softer, but also bulkier and harder to expel - pardon me for being so graphic).  Last weekend, the constipation got worse (continuous straining to little or no avail, to the point where Pepper would become very upset), so I took her to the e-vet, who prescribed a stool softener, which was quite helpful.  Today I had her examined by another vet (not the original surgeon), who diagnosed her as having proctitis and a sphincter that lacked the proper muscle tone, and said that these conditions would probably improve with another 4-6 weeks' healing time.  Our goal then is to feed Pepper a diet which would enable her to poop easily and comfortably and eventually wean off the stool softener; since further straining, constipation or other problems with pooping would certainly aggravate the proctitis.  Right now Pepper eats 1/2 c. Eagle Pack Holistic Select 2x/day, to which I've added the pumpkin, as well as 1/4 tsp olive oil and some warm water to wet down the kibble.  Is this too much fiber for a time when we should be reducing the demands on Pepper's rear, or is fiber helpful in this case?  Should Pepper change to a low-fiber diet such as I/D or home cooked hamburger and white rice for the time being? Please give us your ideas - they would be much appreciated!  Thanks in advance.

       

    • Gold Top Dog

    To be completely candid I don't think there IS a right or wrong answer -- I think you try and see what WORKS and go with that.  It's going to be pretty individual how her body reacts to it.

    If you do rice cook it BEYOND belief.  Blown out totally mush (i.e., don't think you're being nice by using converted rice and DON'T use brown rice -- even Minute Rice is FINE just use lots of water and cook it beyond belief into mush and it will help her.  Add just a tiny bit of garlic powder if you want for flavor and you can stir in an egg when you take it off the heat.

    Go look at http://www.critturs.com/prissy.html -- that's what my Prissy ate for many years after having pancreatitis.  (and she lived to be almost 21 years old!!)

    • Gold Top Dog

     Push lots of water. Low sodium broths, doggy "gatorades", pedialyte, canned or cooked foods. My Emma had a rough time pooping, when she switched to a prescription diet, a few months back, and I became a full time water pusher. It helped her, a lot. I bought k9 Quencher, in all 3 flavors (her favorite is the vanilla). I feed her a cup of water, with a teaspoon of canned food, for lunch. I add a LOT of water to her meals. Anything to get water in, is going to help.

    • Bronze

    Callie - last night, after you posted, I ran out and bought a 1 lb package of hamburger (the ones in our freezer were frozen solid), broke it up into 4 batches, and cooked one batch with white rice using the recipe on your webpage (and what a wonderful page that is - such a loving tribute to Prissy).  This morning, I was torn between switching Pepper to the new food "cold turkey", or mixing 1/2 old and new, and I opted for the latter, and will do the same again for dinner tonight.  So we'll see which way she goes.  The lactulose gives us freedom to experiment, and if she doesn't do well, at least the decline won't be too extreme.  Did you give Pris any vitamins or other supplements while she was on this diet?

     Jennie - may I ask what food Emma was on?  Was it I/D?  Where did you buy the doggy water products?  Not only Pepper, but Pixie (my other dog) will love you for the suggestion.  What was Emma's medical problem, has she recovered from it, and if so how long did that take?  As you can tell, I'm worried about Pepper and hearing that someone else's dog either recovered from a similar condition or is coping well is very comforting to know.

     Both of you - thank you so much! 

    • Gold Top Dog

     Emma has horrible, horrible allergies. Anal gland issues, seizures, skin issues, and poop/barf have been lifelong problems. I've put her on Hills Z/D, and it's great for the allergies, buuut she had to get used to the lower fat, protein, and fiber. It was hard on her, at first. She's been on it 4 months, now, and I still turn pusher when we travel or she's stressed, but she's mostly figured out that she needs to drink more.

     

    The water additive I got is k9-quencher.com. I got the variety pack, then bought a bucket of the vanilla (because she loves that particular flavor). I never tried the chicken, on her, because she's allergic to chicken, and they said not to offer her that one. Anything flavored that they like, though, even just feeding plain ice cubes helps. They need plenty of water to keep their bellies happy. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    luv3dogs
    The lactulose gives us freedom to experiment, and if she doesn't do well, at least the decline won't be too extreme.  Did you give Pris any vitamins or other supplements while she was on this diet?

    And the more lactulose the looser the stool will be (you know it's also a laxative right?) but it also makes them feel better.

    No -- that "recipe" was handed to me by that vet like 35 years ago -- all she got added to that was a digestive enzyme.  And back then I didn't even know you COULD give dogs veggies.  I added "mixed veggies" to it once and she pushed all the carrots out to one side of the bowl and all the peas out to the other side -- picked up the bowl and there was a ring of orange and green around the bowl!)

    She ate that for almost 17 years.  No joke. No further supplementation -- just that.  And aside from the recurring episodes of pancreatitis (if I let her find a pecan piece it would spin her back into pancreatitis -- she had three bouts of it over the years) but other wise she had a pretty staic diet.  Occasionally a string or two of spaghetti and once in a while she'd talk me out of a Pringle *grin* but supplements?  nope -- didn't  even know about them back then!

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    I agree that a lot of water would be benefitial. Our gal has other digestive issues, but she's doing well on home cooked diet. Home cooked diet means that all the water content remains in the foods. I also add good amount of home made broth to the meals. I also run it through a food processor to further assist digestion.

    There is a product we are using and which I think is great to make sure that home cooked meals provide completely balanced diet.
    http://www.completeandbalanced.com/

    This product is a vitamin/mineral supplement specifically designed to balance home cooked canine diets.

    It also comes with a recipe book, which includes diets for some conditions, and custom recipe is also available. We are using a custom recipe. Has to be acquired through your vet.

    • Bronze

    No, I wasn't aware that lactulose is also a laxative.  Bleh.  I've been trying to avoid laxatives because they make the colon "lazy" and Pepper may be on this drug for a while, and it is the only drug I know of that can be used long-term.  Do you know of a good stool softener (only) for dogs?

    I think our little experiment failed - this evening, Pepper had to strain more than usual before "producing", and her stool looked very normal and firm but we were aiming for soft.  So it's back to the soaked kibble for the time being.  I found some no-salt chicken broth base at the grocery store and will flavor her water with some broth in the morning.  On the advice of the e-vet, I also started treating Pep with Preparation H - it's so funny how she doesn't seem to mind.  If there is no improvement within a week or two, I will take her back to the regular vet.  DH mentioned Prednisone, so maybe that will be the next step.    

    • Gold Top Dog

    It is my understanding, that good fiber, such as Metamusil, works either way: to soften hard stools and firm up loose ones. Clearly enough liquid needs to be present.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I'm wondering about irritable bowel syndrome with your pup. The underlying characteristic of this condition is that the bowel contracts spasmatically rather than in even, healthy rhythms. This can cause bouts of diarrhea (more common with dogs) and bouts of constipation (more common in cats, ferrets, and people).

    So, fiber can help greatly. However, the problem is that you've got to experiment to find the right kind. Fiber is not fiber is not fiber. I have a friend who has a dog with mild IBS, who is sensitive to pumpkin! Ooops. She was using the pumpkin like crazy, thinking it was helping, upping the dose when her dog got worse, and it was a vicious cycle.

    The Metamucil is not a bad idea. It uses psyllium fiber, which is relatively neutral in terms of allergenic potential. But the first thing you need to do in your hunt for something that will help, is learn about fiber in general.

    Dietary "fiber" (not all "roughage" is actually "fibrous";) comes in two flavors - soluble and insoluble.

    Soluble fiber absorbs water and changes in the digestive tract to become a gelatinous substance which often is key in creating an environment that improves probiotic levels. The water it absorbs also slows down the progress of food through the gut.

    Soluble fiber can help IBS when the underlying cause of the gut irritation is indigestion of some sort, or inflammatory/immune issues. Examples of soluble fiber are berries, apples and pears (the insides), and oats. Commercial sources available are inulin, oligosaccarides, guar gum, and acacia gum - and psyllium is an easy to find and use source. You can google for a more complete list.

    Insoluble fiber provides bulk, which can even out spastic colon activity, and there are other benefits  that are more complex related to the balance of colon pH and fatty acids which reduce inflammation.

    I've recently become fond of Orijen Senior, which has a couple of soluble fiber sources, plus insoluble sources in the form of whole grain-free foods. But many other "senior" formulas offer similar benefits. Alternately, you can look at the ingredients of the food you are using now, and offer additional whole foods which match up (for instance, if there's barley or oats in it, offer these grains, boiled to death and possibly even pureed - if there's apples, ditto). The reason I suggest using the same foods is to avoid challenging her system with something new.

    I'd suggest dropping the pumpkin, though. Also, if you include any dairy, I'd drop that too - it's a common allergen with dogs.

    The lactulose won't cause "lazy" bowel because it operates using natural bowel function - it simply increases fluid levels in the bowels in much the same way that the fermentable fibers do. It can be taken daily for a lifetime and withdrawn with no ill effects, and it can't be abused (the effects of "overdose" are simply the same as eating a whole bunch of prunes!).