Annual Vet Check Brings Bad News - CoBuHe

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    • Gold Top Dog

     Bugsy was diagnosed as hypothyroid in February - he didn't have significant weight gain (2-3lbs) but it was strange for a dog that used to eat massive amounts to stay the same.  For him what made me get him checked was increased licking of his front legs and he had gotten dandruff which he never had.  He was retested after 2 months I think and his levels weren't much better so they upped his dose.  He will get rechecked in the Fall (earlier if I see anything I don't like).  If you decide you want a full panel your vet can do the draw and send it to Hemopet.  They do a T5 panel that covers the whole shebang LOL

    Once on supplement he behaved as if he was starving but that only lasted a week or so.  No other real changes here.  His skin cleared very quickly and he ceased the licking too.  I bought my last lot of supplement onliine and it is VERY cheap

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoBuHe
    The vet only gave me 1 number, so I can assume it was not a FULL panel. 

    Ask the vet if the number he gave you is T4 or "free T4".  He/she will probably be shocked.  Wink

    The following link is pretty easy to read and gives you a good idea why things are much more complicated than just one number.  The pituitary gland must stimulate the thyroid.  The thyroid gland must have enough selenium and iodine, and it can atrophy or be attacked by the body's own immune system.  There are two hormones produced by the thyroid - T3 (active hormone) and T4 (precursor to T3).

    http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=461
    "Due to assorted compensatory mechanisms, T3 levels often fluctuate into the normal range in even truly hypothyroid dogs.   ...

    It would seem that a low T4 would indicate hypothyroidism and a normal T4 would indicate normal thyroid function. Unfortunately, it isn’t that simple. Dogs taking certain drugs ... or with illnesses other than thyroid disease often have depressed T4 secretion. These dogs will have low T4 levels but are not hypothyroid. This means a normal T4 indicates normal thyroid function but a low T4 may or may not indicate hypothyroidism.  ...

    T4 exists in two forms: the form that is carried around bonded to a blood protein (this is called bound T4) and T4 floating around loose in the bloodstream (called free T4). Only free T4 can enter cells and be converted to T3 and the concentration of free T4 corresponds to thyroid hormone activity where it counts (i.e. at the tissue level). Free T4 levels are less subject to fluctuate into a falsely low range in response to non-thyroidal diseases or drugs than is a total T4 level.

    Free T4 levels are typically 1000 times smaller than total T4 levels plus tests for free T4 have to work in such a way so as not to convert bound T4 into free T4 and thus interfere with results. ...

    Monitoring with T4
    The lowest thyroid level of the day is found by taking the blood sample right before a tablet would normally be given. The highest level of the day is found by taking the blood sample 4 to 6 hours after it is given. Expect one or both such tests to be periodically recommended. ...

    • Gold Top Dog

    Since your dog is not showing illness, it is likely he is truly hypothyroid.  However, here is more on the problems with diagnosing thyroid problems based on one number.

    http://usa.leventa.com/Vet/euthyroid.asp
    "Euthyroid sick syndrome (ESS), also known as sick euthyroid syndrome, refers to the condition in dogs in which concurrent nonthyroidal illness (NTI) causes suppression of serum concentrations of circulating thyroid hormone without true pathology of the thyroid gland. Decreased concentrations of T4, and to a lesser degree fT4, with ESS can be misleading and result in an erroneous diagnosis of hypothyroidism. Although the exact mechanism of this syndrome is unknown, it is believed to be a protective mechanism of the body during NTI to decrease cellular demands by slowing metabolism.

    Euthyroid sick syndrome can be associated with endocrine disorders such as hyperadrenocorticism, hypoadrenocorticism, and diabetes mellitus, as well as any significant organ disease, particularly renal failure and liver disease. Cardiac failure, hemolytic anemia and infectious disease are also etiologies of the ESS.

    Differentiating hypothyroid from euthyroid dogs can be challenging and requires evaluation of more than a single thyroid function test."

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoBuHe
    getting cold easily; shedding; flaking; dark pigmentation; dull coat; balding coat, high cholestrol.

    Sassy had almost all those symptoms. She'd gotten up to 108 lbs and once we put her on the meds, the weight simply dropped off with no reduction in what we fed. Her coat filled in and was shiny again and she was far more alert. For a short time after I started the meds I thought she was too hyper and so I asked for a recheck early and had them check her BP. All was fine though and she's been on the meds for about 3 yrs now.

    For my older (14 y.o.) lab mix, I've been giving her Cetyl M, per Becca's recommendation, and a glucosamine supp, plus fish oil and she's doing amazingly well now. She was having trouble getting up or lying down but I hardly notice any problem now. Might be worth a try. I ordered the Cetyl M thru PetCo.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Our gal has hypothyroid. Hypothyroid can cause trouble only when it goes undiagnosed. When diagnosed, a simple pill gets things under control. Our gal was also overweight, just simply starting the pill got her to lose weight, no good reduction was neccessary.

    Hormones produced by thyroid regulate metabolism. That's how things get messed up, when it's underactive. The pills simply add what's missing.

     re: arthritis
    Those are all good ingredients. There are many products out there, most of them good. I am not familiar with this one, but it sounds good as far as the ingredients are concerned.

    • Gold Top Dog

    janet_rose
    http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#hypothyroid
    "Thyroid supplements should be given to dogs twice a day, rather than once a day, as is done with humans, as dogs metabolize it faster. When testing thyroid levels after your dog is on thyroid supplementation, it is important to draw blood 4-6 hours after the supplement is given."

    The above site has a number of links, but several (including its MSU links) are broken at the moment and some are rather old.

    Mary has already fixed her links! 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks again everyone!  I wonder how long it takes before Buddy starts feeling better after starting the Thyroid supplement.  He started Monday night, so he has only had 4 doses.  But, I swear I see a difference in his sluggishness...and improvement, in other words.

     He actually played catch with me this morning.  Could it help this quickly!?!

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoBuHe

    Thanks again everyone!  I wonder how long it takes before Buddy starts feeling better after starting the Thyroid supplement.  He started Monday night, so he has only had 4 doses.  But, I swear I see a difference in his sluggishness...and improvement, in other words.

     He actually played catch with me this morning.  Could it help this quickly!?!

    It definitely can. I noticed it that quickly with Sassy. I'd imagine it's not so obvious if the levels weren't way off but her's were almost non-existent. Prior to starting the meds, I watched a butterfly fly only inches from her face and she barely reacted. Within a day or so on the meds, she was fully alert again.

    We also think that the low thyroid might've contributed to the scuffles that Sassy was having with Buffy. Once Sassy was on the meds, things calmed down greatly. They've still had a few spats but not nearly as often as they had been.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I don't remember when I saw a difference with my dogs on thyroid supplement but I'm sure glad Buddy is feeling friskier!  Give that sweet boy some belly rubs for me. :)

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoBuHe
    He wants to do another draw in 3 months.

    The more reading I do the more I understand how hard it is to accurately diagnosis hypothyroidism. 

    Personally I would not wait 3 months to get a full thyroid panel.  A low total T4 can be a protective mechanism caused by illness and does not necessarily indicate a poorly functioning thyroid gland.  I am assuming that T4 is the one thyroid number you currently have and (by itself) all that number tells you is that you need to do further tests. 

    I would hate to see you cover up another illness by supplementing a perfectly normal thyroid gland which the body has signaled to slow down.  If you don't read anything else in the article below, read the last paragraph. 

    Frankly, I would talk to Dr. Dodds (Hemopet).  She may want you to stop the supplementation, wait a period of time, and then do the full thyroid panel.

    A Diagnostic Dilemma
    http://rivercitypetwatch.com/files/Diagnostic_dilemma.htm
    "Every year, thousands of dogs are diagnosed with hypothyroidism and most subsequently receive lifelong thyroid supplementation. But many of these dogs do not have the disease. ...

    When the body experiences altered demands and priorities such as illness or stress, the thyroid gland tries to compensate by minimizing energy requirements. Energy is conserved by reducing thyroid hormone secretion. This, in turn, lowers the body's metabolic rate.   ...

    SES (sick euthyroid syndrome) describes the situation in which dogs with normally functioning thyroid glands have decreased thyroid hormone levels with an appropriate cause. Virtually any condition trauma, stress, injury, illness, poor diet can affect thyroid hormone levels and cause SES.

    SES is actually a protective mechanism. When the body experiences altered demands and priorities such as illness or stress, the thyroid gland tries to compensate by minimizing energy requirements. Energy is conserved by reducing thyroid hormone secretion. This, in turn, lowers the body's metabolic rate.

    Further compounding the problem is that whatever initiates SES may be vague and difficult to identify. Without comprehensive diagnostics and evaluation, low thyroid hormone levels may be the most obvious abnormality, leading to a misdiagnosis of hypothyroidism.

    If a dog with SES is misdiagnosed and is supplemented with thyroid hormone, the body's protective mechanism can be negated.

    ... high cholesterol after a fast supports a diagnosis of hypothyroidism, but it is not definitive.

    Another diagnostic clue is that as many as 40 percent of hypothyroid dogs have anemia - decreased numbers of red blood cells without signs of replenishment. This finding also supports a diagnosis of hypothyroidism, but again, is not definitive. Other causes of anemia should be considered.

    Abnormalities in the urinalysis suggest a problem other than hypothyroidism.   ...

    A total T4 result far below normal or near zero strongly suggests true hypothyroidism. Still, more definitive testing is highly recommended before committing a dog to a lifetime of thyroid supplementation and monitoring. Though a popular test, total T4 is a poor method for evaluating thyroid function.  It is limited because many uncontrollable factors affect total T4 levels.  ...   Even ambient temperature can affect a diagnosis - a car ride to the vet's office on a hot summer day may decrease total T4 levels, causing false low results.  ...

    To what degree various factors affect total T4 remains unknown. But it is clear that a diagnosis of hypothyroidism based solely on the results of total T4 is seriously flawed. It is subject to tremendous error, which can lead to the inappropriate treatment of many dogs.

    Aside from the limitations described, measuring total T, and total T4 neglects to evaluate thyroid function. Because inadequate thyroid function is the distinguishing characteristic of a truly hypothyroid dog, a thyroid function test is imperative for proper diagnosis.   ...

    The take-home message is this:  Lifelong thyroid supplementation for a diagnosis of hypothyroidism based on a total T4 and an apparent response to treatment is perhaps the single greatest reason for misdiagnosis and over treatment. Many diseases may respond to thyroid supplementation in the absence of hypothyroidism. Because a non-thyroid disease seems to improve with thyroid supplementation does not signify a cure, a treatment or, for that matter, even a benefit."

    • Gold Top Dog

    janet_rose
    The take-home message is this:  Lifelong thyroid supplementation for a diagnosis of hypothyroidism based on a total T4 and an apparent response to treatment is perhaps the single greatest reason for misdiagnosis and over treatment. Many diseases may respond to thyroid supplementation in the absence of hypothyroidism. Because a non-thyroid disease seems to improve with thyroid supplementation does not signify a cure, a treatment or, for that matter, even a benefit.

     

    This is very interesting and a little alarming but important to know.  I will definitely keep it in mind if I have another dog diagnosed with hypothyroidism.  Thanks for finding this, you are a gold mine.  Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoBuHe
    I wonder how long it takes before Buddy starts feeling better after starting the Thyroid supplement.

     

    Yes, I believe that the improvement starts showing very fast. Our gal showed improvement in some of her symptoms very fast also. While some issues might take longer to sort themselves out (mostly the 'invisible' ones) some of the outward symptoms seem to go away quickly. Since it affects metabolism, once balance is restored, metabolism should improve and vitality return for example.

    • Gold Top Dog

    calliecritturs
    I've got an article I did on pain management/arthritis

     

    Do you mention stem cell treatment in there? Seems to work miracles for arthritis, hip displacia and some other things. Our gal had it done for her arthritis and as a supporting treatment for her knee surgeries. Our vet is VERY excited at her progress in comparison with how it would normally go.
    Her crucials were going weak until eventually let got. She had surgery on her left knee (we opted for customized extracapsular repair combined with the stem cell injections). Three months after the first surgery her right knee went. Her left knee was strong enough already to carry her through not being able to use her right leg at all and remained strong. She's not six months after her first knee surgery and three months after her right knee surgery. She already has a bounce back in her gait. Doesn't favor the leg and hardly ever gets stiff after prolonged exercise and rest.
    We are also including Catrophene injections in the regiment and low level cold laser.

    • Gold Top Dog

    JackieG
    I will definitely keep it in mind if I have another dog diagnosed with hypothyroidism.  Thanks for finding this, you are a gold mine. 

    I am happy to pass on the info, but the kudos belong to Mary Straus of www.dogaware.com.  She has an amazing amount of health info on her site and I found the article among her hypothyroidism links.