AIHA or IMHA

calliecritturs

There IS a lot of differing medical opinion here and it's not the difference between  "regular" and "holistic" medicine.  I think every single vet/doctor I've ever known have EACH had their own particular wean-off protocol for prednisone and many times SEVERAL to use in case of the million different reasons for using pred. 

Right, like I said in my post, what might have been right for us, might not be right for your dog.  It's hard to wrap your brain around, it's treated the same but different.  They've got to tweak everything to your unique situation.

willowchow

But, I think the pancreas(sp?) is a concern during this time so less fat the better??

Not necessarily -- it's going to depend on THAT dog again ... pancreatitis is *inflammation* of the pancreas ("titis" is "inflammation of" or "infection of";) -- and fat makes the pancreas work *harder* -- it's not just a "this causes that" thing.

The big deal is "inflammation" generally.  And you'd think since all these drugs are "anti-flammatories"  that wouldn't happen right?

WRONG.  Because infection causes inflammation, and because these suppress the immune system SO completely infection is the biggest risk.  So you  walk a tight line between feeding for health and keeping everything "calm". 

Billy and Willow both had the worst skin of their lives while ON steroids (and how often do they *give* steriods to a dog with cruddy skin??? -- see the conflict??)

I think Clpppy is feeling good enough to *want* exercise and I think Willow felt cruddy enough *not* to if I'm correct).  So my point was to change the diet enough to help keep her more sedentary.

I'm glad to hear that every one seems to be headed in the RIGHT direction.  I pray for each and every one of you every day.  You guys seem to be making the right choices, I hold my breath when I see a new post.  I would be happy to talk to anyone if they need support, if anyone needs to talk, please send me a message and I will get my phone # to you.  Keep up the good work, because each day you get with them is a blessing!

Hi GratefulDawg

Andy weighs about 15 lbs now (he was around 17 but lost due to no food at the beginning).  I go the the vet on Wed. to have everything checked, so I can give you a better idea of the liver functions then.  You know, before all this happened, I was dead set against Prednisone, because of all the potential side effects.  But I realize now that sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, and do whatever it takes to save your dogs life.  The pred did not work alone for Andy, that is why he is also on azathiaprine. I think that is what actually finally started him producing those new red cells, which he hadn't done before, and that is obviously key.   Andy had acute pancreatitis, and I know that both these drugs can cause it, and of course I am afraid of him getting that again, but the dosages will be lowered, and honestly, if it works, I have to say I'm willing to take the risk.  I just want him to feel okay and be happy.  I will deal with whatever may come our way in the future.  I feel blessed to have Andy, he came to us at around 5 years of age, through a rescue agency, and my life has been infinitely better since having him in it.  I know you feel that way about your puppy too...

I will keep hoping for more good new on Cyclops...and I'll let you know what the vet says when I see him Wed. 

Hi Andy's Mom!  I hope the liver function check up is good on Wednesday.  I know how you feel about the Pred but it's a lifesaver sometimes.  Keep us posted on Andy and I, along with many others, will be keeping you and Andy in our thoughts.

Good News:

Cyclops' PCV came back at 30!  Her reticulocyte count remains nice and high.  Her Liver Enzymes are mixed.  Her ALT is down to 270 from 352 but her ALP is 2700 up from 2400.  Vet seemed pretty happy with the numbers and thought they'd continue to improve as we wean her off the pred.  This is the kind of thing I wanted to see before I started lowering her pred.  I wanted to make sure the cyclosporine was "handling" things by itself.  

My thoughts on switching back to the azathiaprine are mixed.  The vet at OSU is totally against it, she says cyclops liver is very sensitive to it.  Both drugs have serious side effects.  I know that the cyclosporine has many dangers.  That combined with the high cost makes me want to switch back to azathiaprine.  But once again it takes time for the azathiaprine to build up again in the blood.  That could mean upping the pred again or even a relapse.  So at this point I am going to continue with the cyclosporine.

 I made an appointment to see the TCMV on Friday.  Cloppy will get accupuncture and hope to get her some herbs.

sandra_slayton

 

http://www.mikeandjordan.com/hunter.htm

What a wonderful tribute to Hunter - (yes apparently I do have a heart)

I can only imagine the anger you feel about heartguard6.

Wonderful Pictures.  I lost my rescue dog Takona in 2003 right after Thanksgiving.  She was old when we got her and we had 7 years with her.  She died of "old age" and although it hurt for a while I came to feel at peace about it.  IMHA/AIHA is totally different.  IMHA sucks.

The doctor says that Cyclops does not have IMHA but NRIMA.  I will quote from the assessment:

 "Based on the bone marrow aspirate and complete blood count Cyclops has non-regenerative immune mediated anemia.  The immune system is attacking and destroying metarubricytes and polychromatophils which are the red blood cell precursors that are ready to leave the bone marrow and mature to red blood cells in circulation. 

Non-regenerative immune mediated anemia (NRIMA) is different from immune mediated hemolytic anemia (IMHA) in that the mature red blood cells in circulation are not being attacked and removed from circulation (by the spleen or liver) but the red cell precursors in the bone marrow that are next in line to become mature RBCs are targeted by the immune system."

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I just found that to be an interesting piece of information. 

Geez. iot is all a little confusing isn't it.  It seems treatment is the same,  

I am glad to hear she is holding umbers well.   You are s right, this disease stinks to high Heaven.,

 PS Yes I do hate hate ProHeart6 a oes many thosands who lost or almost lost a dog/dogs to it.  Some had the horrible fortune of losing 2 dogs.

GratefulDawg

The doctor says that Cyclops does not have IMHA but NRIMA.  I will quote from the assessment:

 "Based on the bone marrow aspirate and complete blood count Cyclops has non-regenerative immune mediated anemia.  The immune system is attacking and destroying metarubricytes and polychromatophils which are the red blood cell precursors that are ready to leave the bone marrow and mature to red blood cells in circulation. 

Non-regenerative immune mediated anemia (NRIMA) is different from immune mediated hemolytic anemia (IMHA) in that the mature red blood cells in circulation are not being attacked and removed from circulation (by the spleen or liver) but the red cell precursors in the bone marrow that are next in line to become mature RBCs are targeted by the immune system."

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I just found that to be an interesting piece of information. 

They keep learning more about this -- and that's going to help treatment because more dogs will be able to survive if they understand the disease better.

The fact that it's NRIMA is likely a good thing because the adult red blood cells aren't so at risk.

HOWEVER, at the same time, auto-immune can cross over and become something "else" any time.  In Cloppy's case, the TCVM is going to help build the blood up as well as help 'protect'.  And not just the herbs, but the acupuncture provides awesome support as well. 

And that PCV is awesome. 

Any opinions on giving Cyclops a bath?  She likes baths and unlike my other dog Domingo who goes out and gets muddy and rolls on her back in things that are smelly, Clops as always been a clean dog.  She hates to even get her paws wet when it rains!  So anyway she hasn't had a bath since this all started and I am wondering if there is any reason not to. 

I have a feeling you're all going to tell me no bath...

30 is a WONDERFUL pvc -- I am very happy to hear that :) Go, Clopster, Go!

If she enjoys it, I wouldn't see any reason why not -- Billy had baths, got groomed (of course HIS groomer is his major big-time "girlfriend";) -- but keeping the skin in good condition and free from allergens, etc. is a good thing. 

Now if you think it will stress her -- that might be different, but it sounds to me like it may stress her more to be dirty. 

Now -- Billy sez bring on the kewel t-shirts, and "stuff". 

That *would* be a consideration tho -- keep her WARM and don't let her chill.  Warm bath, in the house and dry her with a dryer if she'll cooperate, but don't let her take a chill. 

(oh man, I'm sunk here because now TINK would start in on how important a nice blankey is and a buncha SOFT blankies so you can kind of tromp around and wad them up under you is SUPER after a baf and being cuddled is NICE too ... and and and ...)

I know they even bathed Billy up at UF while he was there -- shouldn't be a problem as long as SHE is ok with it.

sl2crmeg

I would say no bath -- toooo stressful, even if she does enjoy it.

I didn't however, say to give her a blue mohawk or gel the hair to stand straight up on her back and head tho -- so don't let Pirate's *dad* anywhere near her *laughing* (running swiftly away before I get smacked HARD)

My vet told me I could bathe her, but no groomers.