AIHA or IMHA

Frisby update: We are finally (!) in the 20's! Her HCT was 22.8 yesterday. Her other numbers are improving with the exception of the white cells. They have continued to increase a bit because we just can't get the pneumonia under control. We switched antibiotics and I'm hopeful that this will work.

Thanks to all for your continued support!

ElisHope

Eli is doing well. 

This is great news! And, it looks like Eli's PVC continues to go up. And, you're reducing the pred. Yeah!

If she's wobbly her PCV could be down too far -- I'd be getting it checked *today*. 

Tramadol isn't for pancreatitis -- tramadol is purely a pain drug (and *that* will definitely make them wobbly).  They don't usually even give tramadol for arthritis because it doesn't "help" - it's purely to convince the brain that there's no pain.

1 -- half a cup of boiling water.

2 -- add 1 rounded tsp. of ground slippery elm

3 -- let cool totally

4 -- add 1/8 c. + 2 tablespoons of aloe juice

5 -- add 10 drops of chlorophyll

6 -- Add 2-3 capsules (open the caps) of acidolpholus

Once you get it mixed up and whipped smooth, it keeps in the fridge for 3-4 days (after that the acidopholous dies). 

Use a baby medicine syringe and load it FULL.  Give about half an hour before a meal.  Just put the tip of the syringe behind the canine tooth and hold the mouth loosely closed.  Squirt slowly so they can work their tongue to swallow.

You've GOT to get food in her so she can tolerate the meds.  Try baby food meat -- you can use a syringe for that as well - mix just enough meat and water to make it thin enough to go thru the syring.  It's a vicious cycle -- the meds will make the stomach upset, but that makes them not want to eat ... if they don't have food in their gut they can't take the meds

Are you using Atopica or the generic cyclosporine?  I'm wondering if one is harder on the gut than the other. 

With Billy I did NOT play fair -- I gave him all sorts of stuff.  Anything I could get him to "want".  He got beef heart, he got hummus, he got watermelon (yes, watermelon!) and most anything food-wise that I could get in him.  I home cook for mine so I'm not a huge fan of dog food, but honestly I gave him everything.

If you can get her to eat beef it's better by far than chicken.  Lamb is superb. 

I use baby food a lot -- and sometimes I will mix baby food veggies (sweet potato, squash, green beans) in WITH the baby food meat.

DO NOT give spinach to this dog -- if she's arthritic it will make it worse. 

Try mashed potato -- but get food in her.  Even if she has diarreha, you can counter that with pepto bismol, but you have to get food in her so she can tolerate the meds.  It is likely the pred that is making her stomach so sensitive.  If you can go to a health store and get the stuff for that recipe you may find it will help enormously.

Thank you Callie!  RIGHT after I posted this, she ate a half of a can of W/D.  So that with the 1/2 cup of dry is a good amount for this morning.  :)  I get so excited when she eats.  I think it's hour to hour with her honestly, when I'm home with her on the weekends I get to keep trying to get her to eat and little by little, she has been getting "enough" I guess.  I talked to my vet about your slippery elm cocktail and she said that slippery elm can be toxic to some dogs, and with Kiya being so sensitive, it made me a bit nervous to try it??? They gave the tramadol because they said pancreatitis can be very painful and is in humans.  As for her wobbly-ness, she has been that way almost this whole time and has been having her PCV checked every few days to a week at the most, we only went a full week without having to bring her in once.  Her PCV was still at 33 yesterday, I just think that she is terribly weak and has been for several weeks now.  Her muscles seem to "spasm" because it takes so much out of her to walk.  She is normally a very muscular dog, but is now very frail from the Prednisone.  I told the dr. that if she continues to eat this weekend on the Atopica, that I am reducing the pred just a bit on monday because she just can't get any weaker.   Her quality of life is very poor right now even though her PCVs have been pretty good so far.  I think I will get her rechecked on Monday, and if she is still at 33 or above, I'll reduce the pred but just by 10mg/day, she is on 100mg/day, 50mg every 12 hours now.  Thanks so much for advice!  I did get the baby food, but haven't tried it yet, trying to give her foods she had been eating until the diarreah subsided.

calliecritturs

Try mashed potato -- but get food in her.  Even if she has diarreha, you can counter that with pepto bismol, but you have to get food in her so she can tolerate the meds.  It is likely the pred that is making her stomach so sensitive.  If you can go to a health store and get the stuff for that recipe you may find it will help enormously.

Callie, I was not sure who your were talking to but I just wanted to mention that I would discourage the use of Pepto Bismol in most of our IMHA cases. Pepto contain contain salicylates, which is similar to aspirin, so anyone that currently has their dogs on aspirin, any NSAID, or low platelts; you would NOT want to use it. While I have used pepto for my dogs in the past, I would check with a vet before giving it.

Kiya,

Keep eating your food! It's good and it will help you get strong and will help you build your muscles back nice and strong. It's hard getting up and walking when your muscles are so weak from the medicine! Do have your mom talk to your vet about how much pred to reduce at a time--it can be worse if you go too fast. It's all scary, I know. Eat, eat!

Frisby

Hi Everyone,

I'm writing with a Jazz update.  Unfortunately, her red blood count dropped to 21.  The vet decided to have us increase the steroids.  I'm feeling so helpless.  The vet said what we're doing is not working, and increasing the steroids is the only thing that we can think of to try.

She's resting now, and it's nice to see her with such peace.  She's still eating well, but so far today she has eaten less than she did yesterday by this time.  She usually stays with us in the family room, but today she has spent all of her time in the far corner of the living room.  This can't be a good sign.

Well, back to nursing. My daughter is still sick.  She felt so good yesterday, but then that all came crashing down this morning.  We almost took her to the ER again today, but she's keeping water down now,so we'll have to wait and see.

I'm wanting to do so much more.  I guess the only thing I can do now is wait and see.

Amsten

I am so sorry Jazz is still feeling so crummy! We're sending our love and positive energy for your whole family.

Edit: I sent you a PM, too. (Click on Inbox at the top of the page to get to your box.)

I'm so sorry to hear the news about Jazz and your daughter, stay strong, that is so much to go through at one time.  You try to get rest too, I know I haven't had a good night sleep in a month now since Kiya has been sick so I can't even imagine having two babies sick at one time.   Try to stay positive, it is so day to day!

All the best,

Alyson and Kiya

That is great news about Frisby!!!  So glad to hear it!

Keep it up Frisby!

Alyson and Kiya

How is Kiya doing? We're thinking of you!

Kiypies

I talked to my vet about your slippery elm cocktail and she said that slippery elm can be toxic to some dogs, and with Kiya being so sensitive, it made me a bit nervous to try it???

I've honestly never seen a dog sensitive to it but even the use of the aloe, acidopholus and chlorophyl would be better than nothing.  Honestly?  I would try it -- the amount of slippery elm in a "dose" is small and it could truly help, but of course it's your call.

Kiypies

  Her muscles seem to "spasm" because it takes so much out of her to walk. 

Ok -- NOW I know exatly what's happening.  She ***IS*** reacting to the prednisone, and honestly I'd bet my home on it.  *I* am one of those individuals who can **NOT** take prednisone ... not at all.  It sends my muscles into horrific spasms and the longer I'm on it the worse it gets.

I have said before, but many many vets/doctors just don't admit that this can be a side-effect of intolerance to prednisone at all.  But I can assure you it happens and it's really really painful an ddifficult.  You will need to get her off the pred *totally* absolutely as soon as possible.  You can't jsut stop it -- but getting her off it is going to be huge for her.  Pain meds honestly really aren't gong to do much.  This is one dog I would use homeopathy on -- it may truly make the difference for her.

As far as the Pepto -- again, I'm simply saying that when you have so many difficult symptoms to deal with sometimes you have to "pick" what's more important and right now, keeping her eating so she CAN take the meds is critical 

So ask your vet what anti-diarreha that she *can* take and use it.  Again it's another thing I think the slippery elm would help with (because it reduces the inflammaiton in the gut).

Well I thought she was looking a bit pale so I just took her to her regular vet today, rather than the internal med dr. she has been seeing just for a blood test.  Turned out her PCV was basically the same at 32.  Her nose also started running a whitish color mucuos from one nostril.  Anyone else seen that?  Dr. said he wasn't concerned about that.  We upped her Cyclosporine today to the 50mg in the am so far, she'll get another 50mg tonight.  She ate decently this morning over three sittings she got enough food, but now she's panting, the Cyclosporine/Pred combo seems to do that to her and she had finally calmed her breathing down over the last week.  So right now she's pretty wiped but at least her PCV is holding at this point.  Dr. said today that cases like hers are tough because there is no indicator one way or the other, she's just kinda hanging in there but her counts aren't rising and the Pred is 'kicking her *ss' for lack of a better term.  We hope that the Cyclosporine will do that for her quickly because we just have to reduce the Pred.  She has potentially lost another 2lbs in just two days (different scales).  But she is now down to 59lbs from her starting weight of 74lbs on the same scale. 

Thanks for asking!

Alyson and Kiya

YES!!!  That is what I keep saying to the Dr's.  Countless conversations in the office and over the phone where I am in tears begging them to give me an alternative and suggest that we reduce the Pred.  And they tell me, I'm sorry but she has to stay on it and she is not tolerating any other drugs.  It is really, really kicking her *ss.  That is the only way I can put it.  So I've basically taken that into my own hands and said Monday is the day we reduce it, I have to take that chance because otherwise I may have to make a really hard decision just based on her quality of life right now.  Like I mentioned before, I feel like I'm torturing her.  It's awful, she fell twice this morning just walking out to pee.  So I hope by Monday she is still eating and we can increase the Cyclosporine and reduce the Prednisone to either 40mg every 12 hours or 45mg, rather than 50mg for now.  She is still eating as of now, just a harder task to get her to do it, but thanks, if I get to that point I will try it!  Thank you for all of your suggestions and time it is much appreciated!

Alyson and Kiya

Is there a vet school near you? (Or have you already been there?) I know a lot of folks on the board have gone to vet schools. Perhaps they could help you find a combination that will work without so much stress on Kiya? It is soooo hard to see them in distress and feel like you're not able to make things better for them.

Thoughts, positive energy and prayers coming your way.