Proin replacement

    • Gold Top Dog

    Proin replacement

    Pella is on Proin, recently they switched her to Phenylpro Cstolamine 75mg.

    Is there a natural treatment for incontinence, that work?

    I have now added Benadryl for fall allergies and I think it is causing a slight leakage problem.  Any suggestions?

    • Gold Top Dog

     Leaks No More, by Homeopet, works for Emma, but it doesn't work for everybody.

    • Gold Top Dog

    goatman68

    I have now added Benadryl for fall allergies and I think it is causing a slight leakage problem.  Any suggestions?

    The b4Benedryl won't cause leakage, but it WILL cause the dog to drink more and then it tends to "let go" about 6 hours after the pill was given.    So just the logistics of that may complicate things (but the dog MUST have access to water).

    YOu might try an alternative way of treating the allergies -- homeopathics work really well for my dogs and there are several allergy formulas.  TCVM also works really well for allergies (Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine -- http://www.tcvm.com -- there's a locator on the left of the page)

    There are various herbs that help the body retain moisture -- like shishandra (usually in a tincture) but the best solution I found was putting bitches britches on the dog with human continence pads in them.  Slr2Meg has a huge thread going on about what she's done/doing with Tiki.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I am going to check out some of the homeopathic sites and see what I can find.  I like the idea of natural cures, but when you don't know alot about them it is scary to give something you know nothing about or can get others expereince with.

    I don't take alot of medicines and hate giving them to my dogs, but I also hate knowing how they feel if they have an accident and don't understand.

    Thanks

    • Gold Top Dog

    goatman68
    I am going to check out some of the homeopathic sites and see what I can find.  I like the idea of natural cures, but when you don't know alot about them it is scary to give something you know nothing about or can get others expereince with.

    If you want to email me I can walk you thru most anything like that.  Don't confuse "homeopathic" with "natural"  - that's a contradiction in terms.  Let me see if I can give you a couple of defnitions.  This is something I've been working on for the "alternative" section of the board anyway.

    Words -- let me give you some definitions - just to be on common terms.

    "Holistic" -- Webster's Dictionarey says:  "relating to or concerned with wholes or with complete
    systems rather than with the analysis of, treatment of, or dissection into parts attempts to treat both the mind and the body> environment as a single system>"

    i.e., -- it's NOT herbs.  it's NOT a synonym for "homeopathic".  It's the whole package -- In today's
    traditional 'Western' medicine  "regular" doctors and vets stay in their specialty -- a heart doctor
    doesn't treat a cold, nor do they want to know you're hard of hearing or that you have arthritis. 
    And sometimes they aren't even really good about realizing that their heart medicine may clash
    with your arthritis medicine or something you're taking for that cold.

    But it's also very misleading to say "both the mind and the body" because THAT sounds New
    Agey too -- BUT when you realize that most holistic practitioners realize that the animal with
    allergies may be nervous ... or MAY be pre-disposed to kidney problems because of having been
    on antihistamines for a long time.  So you look for the other things and prevent them -- not leaving
    it up to another specialist to find.  It's the idea that a being is a 'total package' and what influences
    one area of health may influence other areas of the body's life as well.

    "Modality" - a "modality" is an area of expertise and usually a separate type or way of treating. 
    Not just the difference between a podiatrist and an orthopedist.  But different types of practice. 
    (all within vets who practice holistically) -- there are those who have a particular type of treatment
    they prefer or are good at or are trained in.   For example chiropractic has the basic premise that
    the spine controls all the nerves, etc. from the brain and if that spine is not correctly aligned it can
    cause pain/problems in many areas.  But then Acupuncture/TCVM have to do with the 'energy
    highway' (qi or say "chee";) and by using the steel needles to stimulate the electrical passage of
    the energy you can help stimulate/repair/unblock problem areas & help the body function better.

    So those are two totally different "modalities" -- make sense?

    Some holistic vets 'dabble' in many modalities -- some are good at none.  Some are good in one
    thing and major in it and some have trained in many and are good in many. 

    Some holistic vets wind up being the token "holistic vet" in a large practice because "holistic" is
    popular now days.  But because they are tiptoeing around all the other vets in the practice and
    because they can't say anything 'bad' about all the vaccines given, or all the flea junk pushed, or
    the 1000 x-rays given .... the "holistic" guy tends to be there to prescribe valerian rather than
    another relaxant rather than actually getting to practice holistically (i.e., he only gets to see a
    patient once, rather than treating the 'whole' being).

    So ... TCVM (traditional Chinese veterinary medicine) with acupuncture, Chinese herbs, Chinese
    massage, the Eastern emphasis on diet .... THAT is a "modality" -- and some holistic vets may
    have a passing knowledge of it, but others may practice it pretty much exclusively.  So that's why
    I always toss around links to the Chi Institute http://www.tcvm.com -- or the HVMA links that I
    gave you above.  So hopefully someone can find someone who doesn't just dabble but is GOOD
    at a particular modality.

    So when we talk about Herbals (or herbology), acupuncture, homeopathy, chiropractic, etc. we're
    talking about different types of holistic treatments -- each "holistic" in how they deal with the
    whole body, but very different in how they react.

    "Natural" -- again -- that's not a synonym for holistic.  "Natural" means from nature.  or "found" in
    nature.

    "Herbs" -- herbs are plants -- and sometimes barks.  But herbs aren't "supplements" or
    "vitamins".  Different.  They are medicine FOR SURE.  But they are simply medicinal plants,
    barks that have specific uses. And yes, "natural"

    So ... homeopathy is a modality.  And there are the two "sub" categories -- "Classical
    Homeopathy" -- and "Homotoxicology" (which is really darned new -- like within the last 25 years
    or so).  Classical Homeopaths sometimes don't like the HTX folks -- and some Classical
    Homeopaths don't touch other modalities.  Neither is bad nor good -- they both have strengths. 

    I'll have to take a side trip here to explain homeopathy because it's probably the LEAST known
    and least understood of any holistic modality.  But it is probably THE most powerful thing out
    there to heal deep disease or huge problems, without incurring huge problems or side effects. 

    Put way too simply homeopathy takes a "thing" (sometimes a good thing like an herb or mineral
    but most often a super BAD thing - like something like bee venom that is 'poison' or poison ivy --
    which is a mega contact allergen) -- but it takes that thing and it dilutes it down literally to a
    cellular level -- SO DILUTE that it's almost not even recognizable as that "thing" any more.

    So - if I sat down in poison ivy - my body would be so overwhelmed by it that I'd develop blisters
    and severe itchy reaction.  If I got stung by a bee my body would likely be overwhelmed by the
    poison in the sting and it would cause those typical bad reactions.

    However --  once you take that thing and dilute it down SO FAR that it's almost not even
    recognizable as that compound -- but it still has the basic structure of that "thing" cellularly --
    when that diluted thing is shoved into the blood stream, the body sees it in such a diluted version
    that the body isn't overwhelmed -- but instead the body sees it and says "Hmm - this is an
    allergen -- and I'm supposed to DO something about that ... so let's see - I need the brain to send
    me some of the body's own anti-histamine to deal with this stuff, and I need to combat that itching
    by calmng the nerves in the skin and ...."

    So the theory of homeopathy is to introduce that thing to the body in a way that it's not only
    acceptable, but literally kind of gives the body some basic instructions on what to call up via the
    brain and nervous system to respond to this perceived "threat".

    For an example (and this one is used in allergies) -- bee venom in a homeopathic remedy is
    called "Apis" (from "apiary" somehow) and yes, poison ivy is also something used in a
    homeopathic remedy called Rhus Toxicoendron -- and they use Rhus Tox for "itch" and arthritis. 
    Weird huh? (Rhus tox treats the "inflammation" in arthritis -- similar to how it treats the
    'inflammation' from poison ivy and other kinds of itch)

    But that's way glossing the surface because you don't just use apis for bee stings or rhus tox for
    poison ivy.  You would use those remedies also for the symptoms of what those things might
    cause.  Like the inflammation that can result from being exposed to poison ivy?  Yeah -- but rhus
    tox is also used for a zilliong things beyond "itching" -- it's a big remedy for arthritis (because one
    of the medicinal uses of the poison ivy plant is for arthritis!!)

    Apis is used for more than bee stings -- it's use for any allergic reaction that causes swelling,
    neural involvement (like the prickly skin tingles dogs get in their paws from allergies??)

    If you want to contact me I'll try and help you look up stuff on incontinence -- but the first place I'm
    going to refer you to is a GOOD homeopathic vet.  They ARE out there. 

    And sometimes you combine more than one remedy so they work together in concert (and way
    often they become far far greater than the sum of their parts would normally be).

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Callie, all I can say is Wow!  Amazing.

    I did go to the site for the TCVM and found a person in Madison WI that works with Herbals. I was hoping to call them tomorrow afternoon.  That is 2 hours from where I live, so hopefully they can make some suggestions over the phone.

    I think that is the route I have to take, unless you are willing to help me (and that would be alot of help) to figure out what I need. Pella, has been on proin for probably 7 yrs and I have tried to take her off several times and it didn't work, just this last year they ncreased her dose and switched her to the time release capsule, 75mg 2x a day.   And now I think her allergies aren't helping her. I hate to put britches on her, I know this may sound hard to believe, but she feels pretty bad when she knows she leaked and doesn't know why.

    I would like to try a different treatment, with her age it may help to get her off the proin if possible. To me it is worth a try.

    Thank you for the information, I am a believer in natural, I use several for myself.

    Mare

    • Gold Top Dog
    Mare, trust me, two hours is NOT far for a good holistic vet, LOL. I use the same practice as Callie, and it's about an hour and a half with traffic! :) I hope you can get something worked out. Tiki has just been taking her britches OFF, when she leaks in them, so I understand that your girl might not like them. Would puppy pads help, maybe? At least then she'd have SOMEplace to go...just throwing it out there.
    • Gold Top Dog

    You may also want to check the Alt Vet med website search and see if you can find someone who does homeopathy relatively near you: http://www.holisticvetlist.com/

     But I'm also more than willing to help you dive into homeopathy or anything else.  Sometimes it take a combination of things to work well. 

    Britches can help -- but you DO have to do a bit of training with them.  Making sure they understand it's not a bad thing, and YES you do want them to still try to "hold it" so they can go out.  They DO get used to them after a bit -- but it takes a while.

    The initial consult that a TCVM vet gives is incredibly different from *anything* you've ever seen.  It's beyond "thorough" -- but it gives them an incredible insight into what's going on.  Acupuncture *might* be able to help tighten some muscles --

    They'll definitely want to SEE her first.  They may not need to see her often, if herbs are the answer.  But it sure can't hurt to try!